An Alleged 1953 UFO Crash and Burial Near Garrison, Utah

[fishonjazz]

So don't tell me what thread is needed. Yah, maybe you want to suppress other's information. Not very objective, and not very civil.

You quoted yourself here

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[Red]

I bet fully half of the people who today are sincere believers in the Resistance will reject it when they see what it has done. For sure, almost everyone will, when they see who is running the program.

Most of your gripes, regardless of the particulars, could be scientists warning of global warming, could be “the Resistance”,
could be the CFR, could be George Soros, could be Obama, could be the British, whatever, fall into a simple equation:

1) Powerful people
2) Powerful people, acting covertly
3) Powerful people, acting covertly, with malevolent intent.

And that’s about it. That’s all you got.

 

[babe]

Most of your gripes, regardless of the particulars, could be scientists warning of global warming, could be “the Resistance”,
could be the CFR, could be George Soros, could be Obama, could be the British, whatever, fall into a simple equation:

1) Powerful people
2) Powerful people, acting covertly
3) Powerful people, acting covertly, with malevolent intent.

And that’s about it. That’s all you got.

Don't be an idiot.

People with power do stuff, mostly somewhat different from public knowledge, and in their own interest. Possibly in line with their beliefs of how the world should be. But that is fundamentally inconsistent with the idea of a government accountable to the public it serves.

In the early 1950s, a Senator McCarthy ran a committee to explore Russian influence in high levels of our government. Today the House under Pelosi has run an even more baseless campaign to claim Trump is influenced somehow by Russia.

When the old CCCP broke up, we got to see the files of the KGB. Most of what McCarthey saw in the darkened halls of Congress had some basis. The Trump investigation has lost its wheels. The facts are out now to show it was Americans, members of a liberal think tank with ties to Hillary Clinton who started it, and maintained it.

But the dems and the media just won't stop telling the lies. I don't think you will even read the story, or look for it.

I am going to start doing complaints about baseless analyses of what you or others imagine, and put into posts unrelated to discussion points, in the line of personal attacks.

I can't maintain I know much about politics out in these hills with the cows. But even when I am being rather baseless in comments echoing locals around me or radio talk show content, but it's not organized like a Revolutionary Cell, say of the Trotsky plan.

The reason Communism is inconsistent with American traditional principles most American still want to hold sway in their government, is just this. It is an ideology or cause that basically asserts that people need to be run like puppets to achieve change. There are not a lot of really top dog Communists. There might be millions of pup Communists with essentially no power, and no place to make a difference unless it's as foot soldiers obeying orders, but all dictatorships rely on some kind of inner circle of influencers, and Communism has not proven any different.

Game mocks me conjuring up a false narrative that a conspiracy needs to be a huge number of insiders. No conspiracy, no political movement can be like that. Too many cooks spoil the stew. Authoritarian systems have to be run top down ,and never are really any kind of "democracy".

The Communist Cell is a top down structure where one controller manages perhaps several cells, and that controller looks to a higher up who may have other cells working on the other side of contentious issue. It would be nothing for a coordinated political operation to have several controlled groups on various sides of an issue, or even of many issues, where no one on the lower levels really knows what the whole scheme is.

In addition to this, much reliance is made on "fellow travelers" or dupes. Let's just say this is likely the majority of people in the "cause". They are never told the scheme, they are just told the group is working for some purpose that can be understood in a very positive light. Remember, the method is practically all manipulation.

I don't know anything directly about most billionaires, but I see their philanthropic causes they put money out for, and publicize. I don't imagine that is all there is to it.

Many are involved in the US CFR national level. There are more than 10K members. I know some, am related to some. I subscribe to their newsletters and get publications and get the speech materials that they put out to the public. A cornerstone rule of the CFR is "non-attribution", meaning that members can't publish materials from the meetings. The organization itself does put some stuff out. They have some Communist members but most are just ordinary....but very successful.... professionals. They go to the meetings, eat the dinner, listen to speaker, and read some recommended books, and network for their business interests or other interests.

But the very consistent theme of the organization is global reorganization under various specific plans deemed beneficial.

If anyone publishes material that the public is not meant to know, they get banned. I believe the person who took the video of Biden talking about pressuring the Ukrainian government got ousted. Most of the Resistance in the Press and in the Washington Power Elite are members of the CFR. The CFR publishes a member list for Gawd's sake, but it is not a complete list. A member gets to elect whether to be shown on the list.

This is a very powerful set of influencers. We rarely get a President who is not given support from this group. Trump went to the Pres of the CFR and asked for support. But he told his ideas about making America Great Again, and that is practically the opposite of the global reorganization.

Our CFR mirrors outfits in Britain, Canada, Australia......even Russia and China have comparable organizations.

If you don't know that some of the bigger players on our globe have plans for us they just won't really admit outright, you are just ignorant of the truth.

What the American conservative movement has been trying to do is fundamentally inconsistent with global governance.

I believe in Federal systems of governance where the most power is so far as possible left in the hands of the local government units most answerable to their local voters.

 

[fishonjazz]

Most of your gripes, regardless of the particulars, could be scientists warning of global warming, could be “the Resistance”,
could be the CFR, could be George Soros, could be Obama, could be the British, whatever, fall into a simple equation:

1) Powerful people
2) Powerful people, acting covertly
3) Powerful people, acting covertly, with malevolent intent.

And that’s about it. That’s all you got.

Also, they are almost 100% "Dems"

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[One Brow]

You don't know what you'r4e even talking about.

You claimed the MSM has investigative reporters who do negative stuff on "Left" or "Dem' or "liberal" politicians. That's the "their" in my post.

Your claims about "Project Veritas" productions is sim[ly dismissive denials without eviidenc3e.


I suppose the MSM doesn't do any editing to make a story.

Ask the kid who had his name run out in the MSM when an agitator accosted him gpt erstomh a "MAGA" hat.

The problem here is that now Obama is out inciting race riots at John Lewis' funeral. You know, the man who with MLK did non-violent demonstrations in the sixties.

When the cause you're pushing requires continually upping the ante on lies to try to make a case, you should review the merits of the cause.

If you can't remember MSM posts that are negative toward left/Democratic/liberal politicians, my only response is you have severe confirmation bias.

Project Veritas has a long history of releasing a deceptively edited video, and then later (after the headlines have receded) releasing the full video that shows the level of deception.

Sure, the MSM also edits. Usually, it's not to discredit the interviewee.

I'd love to hear the quote you from Obama you think is "inciting race riots". I can always use the laugh.

 

[One Brow]

Don't be an idiot.
...
When the old CCCP broke up, we got to see the files of the KGB. Most of what McCarthey saw in the darkened halls of Congress had some basis. The Trump investigation has lost its wheels. The facts are out now to show it was Americans, members of a liberal think tank with ties to Hillary Clinton who started it, and maintained it.

Telling someone to not be an idiot, and then trying to justify McCarthy, is quite the irony.

The Mueller report was very clear about the deep level of Russian involvement in the Trump campaign. You can feel free to ignore the facts it presented, your denial does not impress anyone.

 

[babe]

Telling someone to not be an idiot, and then trying to justify McCarthy, is quite the irony.

The Mueller report was very clear about the deep level of Russian involvement in the Trump campaign. You can feel free to ignore the facts it presented, your denial does not impress anyone.

The fact that many of the targets McCarthy sought to "out" were indeed associated with, or influenced by, or knowingly cooperating with actual Russian agents is now definitely known to be true. That fact does not necessarily mean McCarthy was an enlightened soul with a wise course of action, and in fact he may have been pretty much an ignoramus, a bull in the china shop, as someone who would try to "Fix America" through congressional committee.

The fact is, "Communism" is actually, in political reality, a lie. Nobody who is anybody ever believed it was any kind of truth. All of the ideologues and political partisans who fought or in any way acted for "Communism" have all been dupes. From your little blog, I see you are some kind of dupe along some modified line of commitment, doing Herculean projects of acquiring some presumed sophistication in presenting extremely protracted arguments for your vision.

Mueller was a has-been, a figurehead with less than full comprehension even of his own staff. His more favorable reputation was used..... I should say "abused" in the proceedings. The report is now known to be worthless, and the controlling hand working with the scheme, not to get at the truth, but to cover it up.

As I said above, the meltdown of the CCCP included our getting access to the records of the Russian efforts during McCarthy's hearings, and the facts are there. The Russians even had assets inside the Kennedy Presidential inner circles, and even Sen Kennedy indulged in collusion with the Russians, as did Obama, even. But that is all just commonplace in a globalist view of things. Everyone is always trying to influence everyone else.


Putin is very well informed about the use of Communist ideology to manipulate Russia. I believe he fundamentally has rejected t hat ideology and relies more on simple tyrannical and nationalist methods, but is probably more concerned about China's breakout than having trouble with the USA. If China overtly steps out in aggression, he will likely become more allied with the USA. But that is a hard swallow considering what he believes we have done to Russia. Still, if it becomes necessary in defense against China, that is what he will do.

You're an intellectual imbecile if you think what I'm saying "justifies " McCarthy, on the scale of thinking American citizens who prefer their Constitutional form of government which forms a schematic for equal protection un der the law, equal opportunity for all humans, and equal justice in court proceedings, would constitute and endorsement of the KKK.

Pretty tiresome stupidity in here with several people who literally can't reason.

The larger facts of the Cold War would prove out that it was a pretty "fake" Cold War with two sides essentially manipulated by the same hands to create world fear, world division, and a manipulatable public the world around.

 

[Red]

Don't be an idiot.

People with power do stuff, mostly somewhat different from public knowledge, and in their own interest. Possibly in line with their beliefs of how the world should be. But that is fundamentally inconsistent with the idea of a government accountable to the public it serves.

In the early 1950s, a Senator McCarthy ran a committee to explore Russian influence in high levels of our government. Today the House under Pelosi has run an even more baseless campaign to claim Trump is influenced somehow by Russia.

When the old CCCP broke up, we got to see the files of the KGB. Most of what McCarthey saw in the darkened halls of Congress had some basis. The Trump investigation has lost its wheels. The facts are out now to show it was Americans, members of a liberal think tank with ties to Hillary Clinton who started it, and maintained it.

But the dems and the media just won't stop telling the lies. I don't think you will even read the story, or look for it.

I am going to start doing complaints about baseless analyses of what you or others imagine, and put into posts unrelated to discussion points, in the line of personal attacks.

I can't maintain I know much about politics out in these hills with the cows. But even when I am being rather baseless in comments echoing locals around me or radio talk show content, but it's not organized like a Revolutionary Cell, say of the Trotsky plan.

The reason Communism is inconsistent with American traditional principles most American still want to hold sway in their government, is just this. It is an ideology or cause that basically asserts that people need to be run like puppets to achieve change. There are not a lot of really top dog Communists. There might be millions of pup Communists with essentially no power, and no place to make a difference unless it's as foot soldiers obeying orders, but all dictatorships rely on some kind of inner circle of influencers, and Communism has not proven any different.

Game mocks me conjuring up a false narrative that a conspiracy needs to be a huge number of insiders. No conspiracy, no political movement can be like that. Too many cooks spoil the stew. Authoritarian systems have to be run top down ,and never are really any kind of "democracy".

The Communist Cell is a top down structure where one controller manages perhaps several cells, and that controller looks to a higher up who may have other cells working on the other side of contentious issue. It would be nothing for a coordinated political operation to have several controlled groups on various sides of an issue, or even of many issues, where no one on the lower levels really knows what the whole scheme is.

In addition to this, much reliance is made on "fellow travelers" or dupes. Let's just say this is likely the majority of people in the "cause". They are never told the scheme, they are just told the group is working for some purpose that can be understood in a very positive light. Remember, the method is practically all manipulation.

I don't know anything directly about most billionaires, but I see their philanthropic causes they put money out for, and publicize. I don't imagine that is all there is to it.

Many are involved in the US CFR national level. There are more than 10K members. I know some, am related to some. I subscribe to their newsletters and get publications and get the speech materials that they put out to the public. A cornerstone rule of the CFR is "non-attribution", meaning that members can't publish materials from the meetings. The organization itself does put some stuff out. They have some Communist members but most are just ordinary....but very successful.... professionals. They go to the meetings, eat the dinner, listen to speaker, and read some recommended books, and network for their business interests or other interests.

But the very consistent theme of the organization is global reorganization under various specific plans deemed beneficial.

If anyone publishes material that the public is not meant to know, they get banned. I believe the person who took the video of Biden talking about pressuring the Ukrainian government got ousted. Most of the Resistance in the Press and in the Washington Power Elite are members of the CFR. The CFR publishes a member list for Gawd's sake, but it is not a complete list. A member gets to elect whether to be shown on the list.

This is a very powerful set of influencers. We rarely get a President who is not given support from this group. Trump went to the Pres of the CFR and asked for support. But he told his ideas about making America Great Again, and that is practically the opposite of the global reorganization.

Our CFR mirrors outfits in Britain, Canada, Australia......even Russia and China have comparable organizations.

If you don't know that some of the bigger players on our globe have plans for us they just won't really admit outright, you are just ignorant of the truth.

What the American conservative movement has been trying to do is fundamentally inconsistent with global governance.

I believe in Federal systems of governance where the most power is so far as possible left in the hands of the local government units most answerable to their local voters.

I’m simply pointing out that most of your gripes, at their heart, follow the core beliefs of most conspiracy theories of the modern era. And, given the great proliferation of such conspiracy theories in the modern day market place of idea, the fair market value of any one of them, in the market place of ideas, at this point, is about a dime a dozen. Even the overall subject of this thread, UFO’s, has several conspiracy theories attached to it that follow that same formula. You are always free to believe whatever you please, and of course you certainly don’t need my permission. I’m simply pointing out your gripes reflect that fundamental equation of modern day conspiracism.

 

[One Brow]

The fact that many of the targets McCarthy sought to "out" were indeed associated with, or influenced by, or knowingly cooperating with actual Russian agents is now definitely known to be true. That fact does not necessarily mean McCarthy was an enlightened soul with a wise course of action, and in fact he may have been pretty much an ignoramus, a bull in the china shop, as someone who would try to "Fix America" through congressional committee.

If by "many", you mean a handful, or if "associated with, or influenced by, or knowingly cooperating with" includes associations, influences, and cooperations that had been abandoned a couple of decades earlier, sure.

You take on the Mueller report is laughable.

That said, I do largely agree that the Communism of Russia/China was/is in many ways a front for tyrants more than a sincere belief.

 

[babe]

If you can't remember MSM posts that are negative toward left/Democratic/liberal politicians, my only response is you have severe confirmation bias.

Project Veritas has a long history of releasing a deceptively edited video, and then later (after the headlines have receded) releasing the full video that shows the level of deception.

Sure, the MSM also edits. Usually, it's not to discredit the interviewee.

I'd love to hear the quote you from Obama you think is "inciting race riots". I can always use the laugh.

It should be no news to anyone that a Marxist ideologue like Obama will promote race riots, or incentivise racial unrest in order to weaken a system of governance he considers in need of replacing or rebuilding.

His administration was a series of escalations of racial issues with every exploitable event. He is also pretty sophisticated. I was referring to his comments in his John Lewis eulogy, but it takes understanding clearly his coded language. He is setting us up for race riots on exaggerated or false assertions that there is actual voter suppression against blacks, or any other subdivision of voters.

It is evident that we are going to have continued efforts to perceptibly divide us and create more unrest with the ongoing agenda. You can find comments like "Let's be reflective and work together" but it means lets exploit this issue and put it up front.

This is one of several issues being run out today...... I decided to go to my fav expert on the subject...... Sonnie Johnson. First you militarize the police, and then you argue the police (militarized" are out to hunt blacks......

Sonnie Johnson: ‘No Administration Did More to Militarize the Police than the Obama Administration’

No administration did more to militarize law enforcement than former President Barack Obama's, said Sonnie Johnson.

www.breitbart.com

 

[babe]

I’m simply pointing out that most of your gripes, at their heart, follow the core beliefs of most conspiracy theories of the modern era. And, given the great proliferation of such conspiracy theories in the modern day market place of idea, the fair market value of any one of them, in the market place of ideas, at this point, is about a dime a dozen. Even the overall subject of this thread, UFO’s, has several conspiracy theories attached to it that follow that same formula. You are always free to believe whatever you please, and of course you certainly don’t need my permission. I’m simply pointing out your gripes reflect that fundamental equation of modern day conspiracism.

Your lying about me and what I say or think.

A lot easier to be dismissive with straw man argument.

I don't have time right now to dissect your fake construct of "modern day conspiracist". It's a gross simplification, and it's used to be dismissive of facts.

 

[fishonjazz]

It should be no news to anyone that a Marxist ideologue like Obama will promote race riots, or incentivise racial unrest in order to weaken a system of governance he considers in need of replacing or rebuilding.

His administration was a series of escalations of racial issues with every exploitable event. He is also pretty sophisticated. I was referring to his comments in his John Lewis eulogy, but it takes understanding clearly his coded language. He is setting us up for race riots on exaggerated or false assertions that there is actual voter suppression against blacks, or any other subdivision of voters.

It is evident that we are going to have continued efforts to perceptibly divide us and create more unrest with the ongoing agenda. You can find comments like "Let's be reflective and work together" but it means lets exploit this issue and put it up front.

This is one of several issues being run out today...... I decided to go to my fav expert on the subject...... Sonnie Johnson. First you militarize the police, and then you argue the police (militarized" are out to hunt blacks......

Sonnie Johnson: ‘No Administration Did More to Militarize the Police than the Obama Administration’

No administration did more to militarize law enforcement than former President Barack Obama's, said Sonnie Johnson.

www.breitbart.com

His coded language lol.

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[babe]

If by "many", you mean a handful, or if "associated with, or influenced by, or knowingly cooperating with" includes associations, influences, and cooperations that had been abandoned a couple of decades earlier, sure.

You take on the Mueller report is laughable.

That said, I do largely agree that the Communism of Russia/China was/is in many ways a front for tyrants more than a sincere belief.

Well, sure, the report was laughable. A big goose egg, nada, zero, zilch.

The closest the sources came to Russia was a Russian native long established here in the USA with political connections to US politicians. And they found nothing on Trump beyond public diplomacy.

 

[babe]

His coded language lol.

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When he talks expansively about a march on to a better world it's all about the agenda which requires keeping little people divided and polarized for ease of control.

He lays the groundwork for validation of racial issues like whether police in military formations are targeting black neighborhoods.

 

[fishonjazz]

Well, sure, the report was laughable. A big goose egg, nada, zero, zilch.

The closest the sources came to Russia was a Russian native long established here in the USA with political connections to US politicians. And they found nothing on Trump beyond public diplomacy.

Oh and a bunch of convictions.

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[fishonjazz]

When he talks expansively about a march on to a better world it's all about the agenda which requires keeping little people divided and polarized for ease of control.

He lays the groundwork for validation of racial issues like whether police in military formations are targeting black neighborhoods.

These are your assumptions.
Assumptions are not the same thing as fact. Well to most people anyway. I'm sure when a thought pops into your head it instantly becomes factual in your crazy mind.

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[babe]

These are your assumptions.
Assumptions are not the same thing as fact. Well to most people anyway. I'm sure when a thought pops into your head it instantly becomes factual in your crazy mind.

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No.

Obama has a long history of dedication to a kind of politics sometimes described as "Permanent Revolution". In his speech actually laid out his thinking on that line, with expressions of how we must never be satisfied, how what Lewis did was significant in his day, but how we must do more today, and how our journey must go on, at great length. He envisions a future of seeking more such changes for another 200 years.

You can listen to it and just think it sounds good, he wants things to get better.

I know he means to continually employ the power to government as the definer and implementer of "Change", a kind of government that will never be satisfied with human beings and will always need to enforce new ideals upon us.

People who want to make that use of government are and always will be totalitarian dictators. Obama lacks the realization that his pipe dream is a fiction, but he has no aversion to power or self-aggrandizing use of that power.

 

[babe]

Oh and a bunch of convictions.

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trivial but farcical convictions. I suppose you wouln't mind if charges were made up on your friends so long as the trials were aggressively pushed to reach trivial results.

 

[fishonjazz]

No.

Obama has a long history of dedication to a kind of politics sometimes described as "Permanent Revolution". In his speech actually laid out his thinking on that line, with expressions of how we must never be satisfied, how what Lewis did was significant in his day, but how we must do more today, and how our journey must go on, at great length. He envisions a future of seeking more such changes for another 200 years.

You can listen to it and just think it sounds good, he wants things to get better.

I know he means to continually employ the power to government as the definer and implementer of "Change", a kind of government that will never be satisfied with human beings and will always need to enforce new ideals upon us.

People who want to make that use of government are and always will be totalitarian dictators. Obama lacks the realization that his pipe dream is a fiction, but he has no aversion to power or self-aggrandizing use of that power.

Blah blah blah Obama bad blah blah blah.

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[fishonjazz]

trivial but farcical convictions. I suppose you wouln't mind if charges were made up on your friends so long as the trials were aggressively pushed to reach trivial results.

Lol. Even the courts are in on it. Anyone out to get your guys must only be doing it for nefarious reasons. Can't be that your guys did anything wrong.
You crazy guy.

The charges weren't made up you idiot.

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