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Another religious topic......

Is there some sort of litmus test for being a Christian other than believing Jesus Christ is the son of God?


As a bit of an aside, what kills me about religion and its followers is that when some nutjob like the Christian in Sweden kills people many will say he wasn't a "true" Christian since the actions of murder contradict core Christian principles, but when a group of nutjob Muslims run planes into buildings well they are still Muslims, just extreme...even though murder seems to violate core Muslim principles. Well, what is it? Do actions define a religious belief or is it something that someone just has a belief in?

Well, Christian means Christ-follower. So following Christ is what it means to be a Christian. Just believing that He is the Son of God does not mean you are a Christian. Rough paraphrase of what it says in the Bible, "Even the demons believe."

I may be wrong on this, so I will accept any criticism on this....but Muhammad is the chief prophet of the Islamic religion. Muhammad committed many, many acts of murder and such. Now there are different types of Islam just like there are different denominations of Christianity such as, Baptist, Pentecostal, Non-Denominational, Presbyterian. I could be completely off though, I studied the Islamic religion a long time ago and I'm probably a little rusty on their beliefs and history.


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Stripping away every vestige of any belief at all, among a people with a majority of believers, is forcing atheism on people every bit as much as erecting a crucifix at city hall would be forcing Christianity on everyone.

I agree, but you are mioscharacterizing the situation. Removing government sanctions of religion is not stripping away every vestige of belief. Goverments legally have nativities on public grounds every Chritstmas, they just have to allow other viewpoints (an open forum). You can display the Ten Commandments, but as part of a broader display. Students pray in school every day, but teachers can't lead or force them to. Sure. some administrators go too far in stepping on rights, but the ACLU is just as quick to enforce a students right to pray as it is to enforce their right to be free from prayer.

Preventing Christians from using governemnt to say their religion is preferred is not forcing atheism. It allows Christianity to flourish on the merit of its own ideas.
 
Atheists have no religion to force on other people. Not teaching any religion is not forcing religion.

Oh please, atheism is just as much a religion as anything else. It requires faith and devotion to believe in it. Heck, I think it requires more faith to believe there is no God than to believe there is one. Even the demons believe.



/I still <3 you OneBrow. Can you please make your avatar Anthony Davis btw....it will make me giggle profusely.
 
Students pray in school every day, but teachers can't lead or force them to.

Why can't a coach lead his team in prayer? The coach is an individual with Constitutional rights as well.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
 
Well, Christian means Christ-follower. So following Christ is what it means to be a Christian. Just believing that He is the Son of God does not mean you are a Christian. Rough paraphrase of what it says in the Bible, "Even the demons believe."

I may be wrong on this, so I will accept any criticism on this....but Muhammad is the chief prophet of the Islamic religion. Muhammad committed many, many acts of murder and such. Now there are different types of Islam just like there are different denominations of Christianity such as, Baptist, Pentecostal, Non-Denominational, Presbyterian. I could be completely off though, I studied the Islamic religion a long time ago and I'm probably a little rusty on their beliefs and history.


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Christian's literally believe that Jesus Christ is God or part of the trinity of God. We Muslims are against being called Muhammadians because it implies we worship Muhammad (PBUH) the same way Christians do to God. Muslim means someone who "attains peace from submitting will to God." Muhammad is the chief prophet of Islam because we believe he is the only prophet that has a miracle that can be observed even to this day. That Miracle is the Qur'an. It has contained the exact same verses to the word since 1400 years ago. No scientific inaccuracies while containing 1/5th science. It is the very reason the Golden Age of Islam happened. Nowaday's Muslims are going against the teaching of Islam and that is causing them to be bad. The Qur'an is LESS strict then the Bible on how women should dress (read 1 Corinthians 11:6). Hijab is mentioned in the Qur'an a grand total of zero times, it only says women should dress modestly. Wearing Hijab is really something like wearing a beard a tribute to the prophets(all of them) and their wives AND virgin Mary who also wore Hijab. Not a single Muslim Country can even claim the technological advancement of a country as Korea who was a starving nation just 50 years ago and has limited resources.

Muhammad (PBUH) was not a murderer. Islam is not like recent Christianity where by accepting Jesus Christ your sins are forgiven. You are accountable for your own sins and Muhammad (PBUH) was the same.
 
Verily! Allah grasps the heavens and the earth lest they move away from their places, and if they were to move away from their places, there is not one that could grasp them after Him.

I thought the heavens and earth were in constant motion. According to the qu'ran they are fixed in place.

And hath made the moon a light therein, and made the sun a lamp?

Uses the word "noor" which implies lit from within, no mention of the moon reflecting light from the sun.

Quran 71:16. And has made the moon a noor therein, and made the sun a lamp?

See ye not how Allah has created the seven heavens one above another.

Aren't there billions and billions of stars, galaxies, etc.?

Then We made the sperm into a clot of congealed blood; then of that clot We made a lump; then we made out of that lump bones then clothed the bones with flesh; then we developed out of it another creature. So blessed be Allah, the best to create!

Definitely not the biological progression of the formation of a human being.

And the earth We have stretched it out, spread it flat, and cast therein firm mountains, lest it should sway beneath its inhabitants, and caused to grow therein every kind of balanced thing, known and determined.

Mountains do not prevent earthquakes. The earth isn't flat either.
 
Oh please, atheism is just as much a religion as anything else. It requires faith and devotion to believe in it. Heck, I think it requires more faith to believe there is no God than to believe there is one. Even the demons believe.

I didn't read all 9 pages so I don't know if this is sarcasm?
 
Heaven is the atmosphere. In Islam Jannah meaning paradise is different from Heaven.
Noor means reflected light or borrowed light. It says the sun provides its own light while the moon has reflected light. It also says the lowest layer of Heaven is adorned with stars which are described as lamps just like the sun. Basically this entire universe is all the first layer of heaven, there are 6 layers beyond that we don't know about.

"Indeed, Allah holds the heavens and the earth, lest they cease. And if they should cease, no one could hold them [in place] after Him. Indeed, He is Forbearing and Forgiving. " You had a poor translation there.

Keith Moore is one of the most renowned embryologists (when I took embryology we used his book) and he even says that the Quran rights stuff about embryology that wasn't know for even the last 100 years. It says that our embryo looks like a leach, then afterwards gets bones and muscles. That is exactly what happens.

Once again poor translation 31:10
"He created the heavens without pillars that you see and has cast into the earth firmly set mountains, lest it should shift with you, and dispersed therein from every creature. And We sent down rain from the sky and made grow therein [plants] of every noble kind."
 
Christian's literally believe that Jesus Christ is God or part of the trinity of God. We Muslims are against being called Muhammadians because it implies we worship Muhammad (PBUH) the same way Christians do to God. Muslim means someone who "attains peace from submitting will to God." Muhammad is the chief prophet of Islam because we believe he is the only prophet that has a miracle that can be observed even to this day. That Miracle is the Qur'an. It has contained the exact same verses to the word since 1400 years ago. No scientific inaccuracies while containing 1/5th science. It is the very reason the Golden Age of Islam happened. Nowaday's Muslims are going against the teaching of Islam and that is causing them to be bad. The Qur'an is LESS strict then the Bible on how women should dress (read 1 Corinthians 11:6). Hijab is mentioned in the Qur'an a grand total of zero times, it only says women should dress modestly. Wearing Hijab is really something like wearing a beard a tribute to the prophets(all of them) and their wives AND virgin Mary who also wore Hijab. Not a single Muslim Country can even claim the technological advancement of a country as Korea who was a starving nation just 50 years ago and has limited resources.

Muhammad (PBUH) was not a murderer. Islam is not like recent Christianity where by accepting Jesus Christ your sins are forgiven. You are accountable for your own sins and Muhammad (PBUH) was the same.

Yes, Christian's believe that Jesus Christ is God. That is why Christians are called Christ-followers. I don't believe I ever called you a Muhammadian so I don't know where you're getting that from.

I have some questions for you regarding the contradictions here.


Quran 10: 3 Verily your Lord is Allah, who created the heavens and earth in Six Days

Quran 41: 9 Is it that ye deny Him who created the earth in Two Days ?
Quran 41: 10 He set on the (earth) Mountains standing firm high above it, and bestowed blessing on the earth, and measured therein all things to give them nourishment in due proportion, in FOUR DAYS…
Quran 41: 12 So He completed them (heavens) as seven firmaments in Two days and …



Now do the math: 2(for earth) + 4(for nourishment) + 2 (for heavens) = 8 days; and not 6 days
Perhaps I'm reading it wrong, but that's what I'm getting from there.


Quran 67: 5 And We have (from of old) adorned the lowest heaven (sky) with lamps, and We have made such (Lamps as) missiles to drive away Satans…

Soooo....stars(lamps) were created as missiles to drive away Satans. Yeah, that sounds about right to me.



Quran 96: 2 Created man, out of a mere clot of congealed blood

This idea also came from the Greek. Aristotle erroneously believed that, humans are originated from the action of male ***** upon female menstrual blood, which is absolutely an incorrect assumption. Quran’s assertion on Clot (alaqa) is completely wrong about human development, since there is absolutely no stage during which the embryo consists of a clot. The only situation in which an embryo might appear like a clot is during a miscarriage, in which case the clotted blood that is seen to emerge (much of which comes from mother) is solidified and by definition no longer alive. Therefore, if ever an embryo appeared to look like a clot it would never develop any further into a human; it would be a dead mass of bloody miscarrying flesh. Since Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) had some thirteen wives it is entirely possible that he would be very familiar with miscarriages.

Modern science tells us that, the formation of human embryo is a seamless continuation from conception to birth; hence there are no hard- and- fast boundaries of stages as Quran describes. Quran describes 4 stages, which matches exactly with Galenic description of development of human embryo (which was proved wrong by modern science).

You can say that Muhammad was not a murderer, but he ordered people to be killed. One could say the same thing about Hitler, and he's called a murderer often. Ordering somebody to die and killing them yourself is essentially the same thing. Also, could you clarify what you mean on being held accountable for your own sins? Most Christians I know acknowledge the fact that them sinning is their own fault, however they also recognize that Jesus has given us the gift of forgiveness without which we would be lost. You'll never be able to do more good than bad, so if we alone are accountable for our own sins and nobody takes them from us, we are doomed.
 
Why does it say that Allah is the light, original word noor, of the heavens and earth? What light is he reflecting?

Thus we find that the Qur'an never says that the moon is not a light, and it never says that the moon reflects light. In fact, the Qur'an uses exactly the wrong language from a scientific point of view. It says in Suras 71:16 and 10:5 that Allah "made the moon a light" . However, in other verses the Qur'an says that Allah is a "noor", a light. Look at Sura An-Noor 24:35, one of the most beautiful passages in the Qur'an. It reads:

Allah is the Light (noor) of the heavens and the earth.
The Parable of His Light (noor) is as if there were a Niche
and within it a Lamp (misbah): the Lamp (misbah) enclosed in Glass:
the glass as it were a brilliant star:
Lit from a blessed Tree, an Olive,
neither of the east nor of the west,
whose oil is well-nigh luminous,
though fire scarce touched it:
Light (noor) upon Light (noor)!
God does guide whom He will to His Light (noor):
God does set forth Parables for men: and God does know all things.
 
Oh please, atheism is just as much a religion as anything else. It requires faith and devotion to believe in it. Heck, I think it requires more faith to believe there is no God than to believe there is one. Even the demons believe.



/I still <3 you OneBrow. Can you please make your avatar Anthony Davis btw....it will make me giggle profusely.

I disagree completely. My take is this: It has been asserted that an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent being exists and that said being created our world and our species. I say prove it.

I'm an atheist waiting for the assertion to be given some credibility.

I'm sure you're familiar with the pastafarians, right? They assert that a giant spaghetti monster exists and is in fact the true creator. The point they make is that to not believe them would be the rational view, as there is no evidence that a giant spaghetti monster actually exists.

It is similar to the invisible pink unicorn argument. Do I require a certain kind of faith to not believe that invisible pink unicorns exist? Or am I just defaulting to the skeptical view of baseless assertions?
 
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