Anyone catch Colin Cowherd

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Every level of competition, even in the workforce, is going to have outliers that go against the expectation.

But you listed out a bunch of teams who've largely done either about as well as the Jazz the last 40 years or significantly worse.

Sacramento has made the NBA Playoffs ten times in the last forty seasons. They last made it in 2006! They've made one Western Conference Finals (2002) and never made a NBA Finals.

Charlotte (including the old Hornets, the Bobcats and the new Hornets) have made the playoffs just ten times in their history - their first season being 1988. They've been out of the first round four times in their franchise's history. They've never made it out of the semifinals and to the Eastern Conference Finals, however.

Their last playoff series win was in 2002 ... before the franchise relocated to New Orleans.

Their last actual trip to the playoffs was in 2016.

Minnesota came into the NBA a year after Charlotte. In that span, they've made the NBA playoffs 10 times as well. They've only advanced beyond the first round ONCE. In the history of the franchise, the Timberwolves have just 19 playoff wins all-time and TEN of those came in one playoff (when they made the WCF in 2004).

Milwaukee I've gone over.

Orlando had success in the 2000s with Dwight Howard, when they made the NBA Finals in a weak Eastern Conference, and I will concede they've done relatively well. But they still have zero NBA titles and have only made the playoffs twice since 2012.

Cleveland I don't think is comparable to Salt Lake, even though it does get a bad wrap.

See Cleveland for Detroit.

The big knock against Toronto is that they're a Canadian city but they're the fifth largest city in NORTH AMERICA so I just don't see it as a comparison.

Phoenix is where the Jazz have been most their history: good and yet have yet to prove it. We'll see if that changes this year.

San Antonio is an anomaly and always has been.

I think this list shows just how difficult it is to win a title in the NBA when you're not a power market. It takes a perfect storm, like with the Cavs getting LeBron to return after he went to Miami. He was a Hometown Hero who decided to come back and win it all - but there isn't anything remotely similar beyond the Jazz getting Lillard (and he's no LeBron).

The Spurs lucked out. They tanked for one season and got Duncan. Duncan saved a franchise that was very similar to the Jazz - winning Midwest Division titles, being good but just not good enough.

But the Spurs without Duncan haven't done much. Since he retired, the Spurs have had one run in the playoffs: 2017 where they made the WCF and were swept by the Warriors (oddly, a similar season as Utah's in 2007 after Stockton and Malone had retired/left, albeit a bit longer in between those seasons). Since? They've lost the first-round to the Warriors (swept), Nuggets and haven't made the playoffs.

Maybe the Jazz can get an all-time top player in NBA history through the draft. It sure worked for the Bucks too.

But all those other teams I listed out have drafted star players and have as many rings to show for it as Utah. And a lot less consistency.

The only real FA destinations are LA and Miami, if we're being honest. Maybe NY if players are willing to overlook their lousy management. Even Boston and Houston struggle getting good FAs. Dallas hasn't attracted any great FAs. Neither has Atlanta, or Denver, and so on. Who was the last great FA that Chicago signed?

The league has more parity than ever before, and small markets are going to continue to play a large role.

 

[TheGoldStandard]

I think many who want to blow it up actually agree with you. The problem is we have no assets and are in salary cap hell. That is the reason many want to blow it up I think.
If we could make some good moves to get better players around rudy and mitchell then I think most people would feel like you do. I dont think many people think we have the ability to do that though.

What are the cap implication if we buyout Mike? If it doesn't hit the cap, do it. Tell him hr is on the line with very few minutes if he disagrees.

 

[Bawse Dawg]

Eh, I actually felt higher at the end of the regular season than I did at the end of the second round of the playoffs.

That’s fine. Personally I’m all good on regular season success when it comes to the Jazz. We’ve done it all. Now I want postseason success. Especially now with players not caring at all, always taking days off, etc. league wide. And the Jazz are basically the poster team for ‘regular season vs postseason’ in a bad way. So it does very little for me.

 

[Sean]

The only real FA destinations are LA and Miami, if we're being honest. Maybe NY if players are willing to overlook their lousy management. Even Boston and Houston struggle getting good FAs. Dallas hasn't attracted any great FAs. Neither has Atlanta, or Denver, and so on. Who was the last great FA that Chicago signed?

The league has more parity than ever before, and small markets are going to continue to play a large role.

Those markets struggle because they're not putting out elite teams - but when they do, it becomes infinitely more easy to draw talent to Boston or Houston than I think it would be to draw talent to Salt Lake City.

Parity is fine but it's not changing the general dominance of a few select teams. Golden State STILL has a really good chance of winning the WC this year (again), especially if Booker is gimped by an injury.

Utah is just a tough cookie to crack, which makes their stability and consistency pretty impressive.

If you list out the perception of every NBA city/state based on the opinions of NBA players, I guarantee Utah is last in perception and it probably isn't close.

That hurts. It's always going to hurt. Even if parity picks up. It limits the options for the Jazz. They've got to build up through the draft, but as we've seen from the 18 or whatever teams I listed out that I feel are either worse than Utah, or equal, it's still a crapshoot about who succeeds and who doesn't.

Hell, Denver might have a two-time MVP on their roster and they're still unable to get out of the first-round these last two seasons.

 

[vegas]

This roster is playing well below their potential. It's gone on for so long, that it may be a loss at this point, but they are not leaving it all on the table. That's the most infuriating thing. The FO and coaches have turned a blind eye to it for too long trying to keep everybody happy. It sucks to ruffle feathers, but if you avoid it catastophe ensues and we are there.

 

[vegas]

The small market thing is a load of crap. If we have to be Ukraine vs Russia, David and Goliath so be it. Larry H went into this knowing that and leveraged everything he owned and all the banks in Utah to start this. The current excuses are blaspheme to the spirit of this organization.

 

[campaignist]

I'm not reading this thread, I'm just going to remind folks that Colin Cowherd is a ****ing moron and shouldn't be listened to.

 

[Sean]

The small market thing is a load of crap. If we have to be Ukraine vs Russia, David and Goliath so be it. Larry H went into this knowing that and leveraged everything he owned and all the banks in Utah to start this. The current excuses are blaspheme to the spirit of this organization.

lol looks like the Jazz are living up to the spirt of the organization by not getting a title.

 

[JFFR]

The Jazz have one more year before they hit the repeater tax. I doubt they trade Gobert or Mitchell this summer. If they are able to get a piece that makes them contenders right now, then maybe, but I think its more likely they reshuffle the surrounding pieces and wait til next year to go into a rebuild mode.

Until recently, championships were only one by 2 or 3 teams each decade. The Jazz's best chance was to strike when Donovan wasn't on a max deal. That was their best chance to have 3 max players. Unfortunately they were only able to get a declining Conley.

Last year was a lot of fun. But you will remember that during the regular season we were incredibly lucky with other team's star players being out when we played them.

Lastly, I chalked up our loss to the Clippers to having an injured guard line. I thought they were able to get by our guards so easily because Conley and Mitchell both had a broken wheel. I don't think that's the case anymore.

 

[silesian]

People said the same thing about Milwaukee and Toronto. Small market teams and no one want to come here. Look at what they've done. San Antonio isn't exactly the biggest market in sports either.

Of course it's not easy to be good for a long time but it's also kinda hard to be good for so long and never able to take the next step. Whenever Jazz fans feel like we have an awesome team and ready to contend, we always manage to blow it. That's the frustrating part. We could've won a championship way before Toronto or Milwaukee, but just couldn't get it done.

Toronto is a big metro area. Almost 6,000,000 people, Philly Miami sized. Bigger than Boston and Atlanta. And a diverse cosmopolitan area.

 

[JazzyBelle]

Jazz should build around Internship players and Mormon players because to them SLC is not the dreaded place it is to the rest of the NbA. Imagine if a White player said they want to play in a White city like Jerami Grant did with being Black in Detroit

 

[Sean]

Jazz should build around Internship players and Mormon players because to them SLC is not the dreaded place it is to the rest of the NbA. Imagine if a White player said they want to play in a White city like Jerami Grant did with being Black in Detroit

lmao this is a dumb comment.

Whites can go anywhere and at least have a significant population within the community. There are very few places in America where Blacks make up near the numbers whites do. Even in Los Angeles, whites make up nearly half the population. Blacks? 8.8%.

So, it's not wild to see why some Black athletes may feel more comfortable playing in a city where there's a bit more of them than Salt Lake, which isn't even 2% Black.

It's the same reason a significant amount of Mormons go to BYU as opposed to going and being Mormon in a community where Mormonism isn't remotely significant. Nothing wrong with that.

And there are players/students/people who are perfectly fine stepping outside their bubble and going to a college or city where they'll be a significant minority.

But even a Black person in LA is going to be a minority. Even in Houston, where their Black population is 22.8%, whites still make up 51.5% of the population.

Only a very tiny amount of NBA markets have populations where Blacks are the plurality or the majority: Atlanta (49.8% compared to whites at 40%), Philadelphia (41.4% to 39% for whites), Memphis (64% Black, 28% white) and New Orleans (59% Black, 33% white).

That's it. And even in those communities, as you can see, you still have a fairly significant white population. The Blackest NBA city isn't remotely close to being as one-sided as the whitest NBA city (Portland, which is 75% white - Salt Lake is right behind 'em at 73%, Portland, tho, has double the Black population as Salt Lake).