What's new
By:
Filters

At what point is it time to get concerned about Hayward?

Jamezz said:
I hope it starts showing soon enough. I like that he's worked hard this off season but it's now when it matters. Many players work their butts off during the off season and they end up warming the bench, it's the 'it' factor what we're talking about, that thing that all superstars have on a fairly consistent basis.

No hate.
Click to expand...

Hayward had a great performance last season. In light of that his off season work is very encouraging.

yes he has gotten off to a slow start but that is his MO. He gets better as the season goes on usually.
 
Hayward gets off to slow starts because he adds something to his game each year and attempts to utilize it. He has added a power game, which fact is amazing, and yeah, there will be bumps as he learns the ins and outs of it. I suspect it will end up going as well as his jab step, fall away experiment which took a little while to click. His defense has apparently risen a couple of notches this season as well (and he was already a pretty good defender.)
 
I don't think anyone's about to give him a wet willy anytime soon.
 
KD's Framily said:
Four years ago, the Warriors had a middle of the pack offensive efficiency, with a very young talented core, a couple of fringe all-stars and a strong defensive foundation.

A middle of the pack offensive efficiency and a top defense for the 4th youngest team in the NBA is a great thing.
Click to expand...

repped.
 
Eenie-Meenie said:
PG, I'm a little confused by your post on Hayward. Are you criticizing him?

So far as my take on him:

The only place I see a problem is with his shooting -- he is too inconsistent. He can do everything else, and do it well -- distribute, play defense, rebound, get to the hole and absorb contact, lead the team. What more do you want him to do -- for me, just start making a better percentage of his shots from the outside, and being more consistent at the foul line.
Click to expand...

Not really, there's not much to nitpick.. I'm just trying to figure what his stats will look like, and I have the feeling they won't be as good as last seasons. I probably should've just titled the thread "will Hayward score 20ppg on 45% shooting this year (or next)?"


My only real criticism from the first few games is that I wish he'd try and get to the FT line a bit more when he's got someone 6'6" guarding him (not that his FTA's have been down), and that's just because I know he's capable of doing it. Defensively he looks better than I expected, minus a drive or 2 he allowed from Stauskas he's looked as good as I've seen him.

I actually think his 3pt shot looks great too, i'm more worried about him drawing fouls and his overall fg% dropping and his ast/to ratio normalizing.

Was not my intention for this thread to spiral out of control - I was just posting it because I think it's a storyline worth tracking.



I'm kinda weary about the Jazz making a playoff push(I wonder how they will deal with another key injury if it happens, probably not well..) , or winning much more than 40 games -- I could very well be completely wrong about that. (I bet on the Jazz over on the win total btw -- not with great conviction though)


I'm pretty sure players like Rudy, Burks, Favors and Hood are in for career years, If Hayward can have a career year, along with those 4 -- The ramifications would be awesome, they'd easily win 40 games and make the playoffs -- So I'm keeping a close eye on Hayward..
 
I hope to see Hayward dropping 20 on Al Farouq Aminu tonight, Aminu has been playing really well for Portland thus far..


I also want to see how he holds up on the boards.. In that last preseason game vs the Blazers they out-rebounded the Jazz thoroughly
 
MDAV28 said:
The one with Hayward, Favors, and Gobert sitting?
Click to expand...

No they all started. Just looked up the boxscore and they didn't beat them by much though 50-47. Seemed worse watching it, I certainly noticed it. Ed Davis was getting his hands on too many rebounds..

Was the game Meyers Leonard was hitting/taking all those 3's and talking ****..



Portland has a ton of moving pieces, I really like they way they've overturned the roster - Ed Davis (and Brandan Wright) was always my favorite recent UNC big (both Lefties), If the Jazz didn't trade for Trey,and you presume the Rudy trade at 27. I'd have gone with Schroder and Mason Plumlee at 21.. Aminu is very good on the boards. Always liked Vonleh and Mo Harkless.

I've got $$ on Portland to out-perform this year, same as Utah.. Lillard has been great so far for them, I've watched a few games, he's walking the fine line of getting everyone involved, and knowing when to take over. Plus their whole team is built around getting boards and 3pt shots, IMO that's a good gameplan in todays western conference..
 
PG_AB said:
No they all started. Just looked up the boxscore and they didn't beat them by much though 50-47. Seemed worse watching it, I certainly noticed it. Ed Davis was getting his hands on too many rebounds..

Was the game Meyers Leonard was hitting/taking all those 3's and talking ****..



Portland has a ton of moving pieces, I really like they way they've overturned the roster - Ed Davis (and Brandan Wright) was always my favorite recent UNC big (both Lefties), If the Jazz didn't trade for Trey,and you presume the Rudy trade at 27. I'd have gone with Schroder and Mason Plumlee at 21.. Aminu is very good on the boards. Always liked Vonleh and Mo Harkless.

I've got $$ on Portland to out-perform this year, same as Utah.. Lillard has been great so far for them, I've watched a few games, he's walking the fine line of getting everyone involved, and knowing when to take over. Plus their whole team is built around getting boards and 3pt shots, IMO that's a good gameplan in todays western conference..
Click to expand...

Oh so you mean the first Blazers game.

Yeah you're right they sure are built to take 3s. So far their offense hasn't been too great though, maybe better than what you'd expect with only one threat in Lillard. McCollum had that great first game but nothing to brag about after that.
 
PG_AB- Despite others questioning this threads validity I have been wondering when this was going to become a question that would be debated here. Yes it's early BUT there has been no sign of GH being the player he needs to be since training camp and scrimmages were happening. We are now underway in the regular season and he is still not playing well. He has been a streaky player over time as well as streaky inside the individual games, so we must give him some time but it is a worrisome trend. This group is still seeking it's identity, there has been a lot change from this season from last and it may take time for this to shake out. Anyway PG_AB I applaud you for the thread. A lot more cogent question than hair-brained trade ideas dreamed up the clueless (That's pretty much all of us arm chair GM's).
 
I hope GH has a great game tonight or this could get pretty ugly. You can already tell he is putting himself under massive pressure.
 
PG_AB said:
I hope to see Hayward dropping 20 on Al Farouq Aminu tonight, Aminu has been playing really well for Portland thus far..


I also want to see how he holds up on the boards.. In that last preseason game vs the Blazers they out-rebounded the Jazz thoroughly
Click to expand...

Your ability to analyze what is happening in these games is perplexing at best. The last game against the Blazers in the preseason should not even be a discussion. Their starters against our scrubs. Favors, Hayward and Gobert all sat out this game, and the majority of the playing time in the fourth quarter went to players that were cut, or will likely not get any time in tonight's game.

To be honest, the whole premise of this thread is flawed IMO. Sure, he has been off a bit, and he seems to be forcing the addition of a power game, but it should pay dividends when he fully adds it to his arsenal. Hayward's stats are not that much worse than last year when taking into account adjustments to his playing time, at least not to the point of worrying by any means (his overall usage rate down 4%, shooting 5 fewer shots a game, playing fewer minutes), which is expected with Burks back and Hood's usage rate going up. Gordon also seems to have a ramp up time each year to get into optimum efficiency. I don't care if Hayward does not average 20 PPG if it includes him getting more rest and we are winning games. He was overused last year, and I think Snyder realized it. If we are going to make a playoff push, we will need Hayward in peak condition to compete, and we will need Burks and Hood to gain confidence from more usage.

Of all the issues I see with the team right now, Hayward is not one of them.
 
str8line said:
I hope GH has a great game tonight or this could get pretty ugly. You can already tell he is putting himself under massive pressure.
Click to expand...

Really? How can you tell this after just three games? Tell us more Dr. Lecter.
 
From an article posted on Yahoo:

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/jazz-not-worried-slow-start-gordon-hayward-015157368--nba.html

Coach Quin Snyder wasn't interested in dissecting Hayward.

''I'm not in the evaluate Gordon business,'' Snyder said. ''At least not after every game. Gordon's established himself as one of the best players in the league. Every game's going to present different challenges.

''I thought he played really well against Indiana. He's gotten some offensive fouls that, to me, are baskets. I like what he's doing and where he's going.''

There will be some developmental time for this Jazz (2-1) team. There's a different dynamic with Dante Exum injured and rookie Raul Neto starting at point guard. Alec Burks is back from a shoulder injury that ended his 2014-15 season. He plays the same position as Hayward and is a creative player with the ball in his hands. Derrick Favors has been extremely aggressive with the new range on his jump shot and leads the team with 21.3 points per game. Second-year wing Rodney Hood has blossomed himself and has averaged 15.3 points.

''From the first week of practice (Hayward had) been really aggressive. That's what we want,'' Snyder said. ''There's different ways for him to be aggressive. Whether it's shooting the ball, making plays defensively. I think we've seen a little bit of everything. At certain times too he's going to put all that together.

''It's an adjustment for him, too, with Rodney and Alec back and Dante not here. Everyone's kind of finding where their shots come, what their role is. I think those roles will be dynamic. I think they'll change as the season progresses. Not in a major ways, but we'll see them evolve.''

Hayward explained that he's not going out looking to get his offense. He's just as involved in spacing the floor and making the extra pass, not to mention his defensive effort.

And that's most important for an organization that led the league in defense after the All-Star game last year. The team just isn't built to win shootouts.

''We're a young team,'' Hayward said. ''We're going to struggle sometimes offensively, but as long as we can maintain our defensive principles, I think we'll be all right.''

The Jazz are currently No. 23 in the league in scoring (94.3 points) after an Eastern Conference swing that included the Pistons, 76ers and Pacers. Utah leads the league in defense after giving up just 79.7 points per game. The Spurs are No. 2 with an opponent's average of 89.5 points.

The defensive effort is off to a fast start. Things are still developing on the other end of the floor, but there are few concerns about Hayward.

''Gordon's one of the most unselfish superstars in the league,'' Jazz forward Joe Ingles said. ''He'll take the shots that he gets. He doesn't force much, either. ... I think we'll have a lot, this year, of different guys having big games each week.

''He'll break out soon and you guys will leave him alone. He's fine.''
Click to expand...
 
JAZZGASM said:
Your ability to analyze what is happening in these games is perplexing at best. The last game against the Blazers in the preseason should not even be a discussion. Their starters against our scrubs. Favors, Hayward and Gobert all sat out this game, and the majority of the playing time in the fourth quarter went to players that were cut, or will likely not get any time in tonight's game.

To be honest, the whole premise of this thread is flawed IMO. Sure, he has been off a bit, and he seems to be forcing the addition of a power game, but it should pay dividends when he fully adds it to his arsenal. Hayward's stats are not that much worse than last year when taking into account adjustments to his playing time, at least not to the point of worrying by any means (his overall usage rate down 4%, shooting 5 fewer shots a game, playing fewer minutes), which is expected with Burks back and Hood's usage rate going up. Gordon also seems to have a ramp up time each year to get into optimum efficiency. I don't care if Hayward does not average 20 PPG if it includes him getting more rest and we are winning games. He was overused last year, and I think Snyder realized it. If we are going to make a playoff push, we will need Hayward in peak condition to compete, and we will need Burks and Hood to gain confidence from more usage.

Of all the issues I see with the team right now, Hayward is not one of them.
Click to expand...

Im talking about the other game, when Rudy played 19 minutes, Hayward played 33 and Favors 30 and the 1st quarter score was 29-16 Portland..
 
PG_AB said:
Im talking about the other game, when Rudy played 19 minutes, Hayward played 33 and Favors 30 and the 1st quarter score was 29-16 Portland..
Click to expand...

They got outrebounded by 3 that game. Would not call that thoroughly. Pretty clear you were referring to the last game as you mentioned.
 
PG_AB said:
Im talking about the other game, when Rudy played 19 minutes, Hayward played 33 and Favors 30 and the 1st quarter score was 29-16 Portland..
Click to expand...

That game the starters where pulled for the entire 4th? Rudy was also in cruise control mode the entire preseason.
 
Grandpa Jazz said:
PG_AB- Despite others questioning this threads validity I have been wondering when this was going to become a question that would be debated here. Yes it's early BUT there has been no sign of GH being the player he needs to be since training camp and scrimmages were happening. We are now underway in the regular season and he is still not playing well. He has been a streaky player over time as well as streaky inside the individual games, so we must give him some time but it is a worrisome trend. This group is still seeking it's identity, there has been a lot change from this season from last and it may take time for this to shake out. Anyway PG_AB I applaud you for the thread. A lot more cogent question than hair-brained trade ideas dreamed up the clueless (That's pretty much all of us arm chair GM's).
Click to expand...

With Hayward having a player option in 2 summers, that leaves him about 161 regular season games to really leave an impression and drum up his market value even further, he's made shrewd moves in the past, I wouldn't be surprised If that's his plan moving forward..

((I'd probably operate like that too, these teams are ruthless sometimes - Why not give em a dose of their own medicine if your good enough to have that chance))

If he's truly a gamer, which I'm sure he is, that's probably his mindset -- he's trying to 'farm' these teams for maximum dollars :p ...

Thing is -- Having a truly great player that's underpaid like Steph Curry is reallly a big advantage vs teams with price-gouging Stars.. There was obviously some extreme circumstances that led to Curry's contract. Still it's a massive advantage that really can't be understated with the increasing cap, because it adds so much flexibility.

That's something I've always kept an eye on, It's the chief reason I couldn't deal with being a Knicks fan anymore -- they were so incompetent about properly allocating the salary cap that they signed a SF-PF-C to max deals, and left a pittance for the PG... I told everyone that would listen, there's no way that'd work, it was obviously a ****ty plan - then they made the playoffs and got blasted by the Heat, and casuals rejoiced..

To me Burks and Favors are tremendous value at their deals, Hayward is more of an unknown


Obviously if he doesn't really get in rythym for lets say a few more games, someone would've made a thread... I'm not really worried about his skills regressing I just wonder about his stats. It'd probably help his cause to score 20ppg this or next season, maybe not -- I'm no expert, just someone on a message board with an opinion.
 
JAZZGASM said:
They got outrebounded by 3 that game. Would not call that thoroughly. Pretty clear you were referring to the last game as you mentioned.
Click to expand...

50-47 isn't getting out-rebounded thoroughly. your correct. I'd argue the discrepancy was enough to affect the games outcome though, most can agree the Jazz need to win the rebounding differential decisively to be most effective.. I mentioned it during the game, in the game thread. Didn't post that after examining the box-scores, obviously.

There's standard variety rebounds, that I like to (and many others) like to call In-area rebounds, and then there's out-of-area rebounds that hustle players(often with long arms)grab.. The Jazz with Favors and Gobert are outstanding at limiting teams out-of-area rebounds that are around the rim, so when teams are doing that - It's a problem.... I thought in that 1st preseason game, with the starters, the Blazers were grabbing too many out-of-area rebounds, particularly Ed Davis.

Same as the preseason game vs OKC - Steven Adams was grabbng too many out-of-area boards, It's really not a big deal, it's not an indicator - just one of those things I like to keep an eye on.
 
VINYLONE said:
From an article posted on Yahoo:

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/jazz-not-worried-slow-start-gordon-hayward-015157368--nba.html
Click to expand...

Great post. Precisely what I made this thread for.

Hayward explained that he's not going out looking to get his offense. He's just as involved in spacing the floor and making the extra pass, not to mention his defensive effort.
Click to expand...

Should be interesting to see how this all plays out... vs certain matchups they'll need him ready to duel though.

Hopefully he just starts stringing together 20pt games on 40% shooting from 3, the Jazz win, other teams in the west continue to falter - I'm all for that. If he kills it this month, I think thats probably a damn good indicator of things to come. Which is another reason I thought to make this thread, this early
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top