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At what point is it time to get concerned about Hayward?

Game6Conley

Game6Conley

Well-Known Member
Too early just yet. If this continues though, whens the proper time to worry about regression???

It's pretty much undeniable that he disappears for long stretches.. Not a particularly encouraging sign from your "1st option offense", he's a legit Vet now too, especially on this team..




I kinda have the feeling that he's not going to post those stats from last season... Is that absurd to think?? Is it possible last season was his peak??



And whats with all these turnaround J's?? I saw an advanced stat which showed he draws fouls at a really hit rate in ISO situations, I highly doubt that particular move he's got is the best in his arsenal, or will draw many fouls..


A Kobe-esq 34 FGA's to score 36 points so far. Obviously that will change. PER's 9..
 
This thread will certainly get flamed, and veered off-topic.

To answer the question in the title. I'm going to say by the end of November.
 
dalamon said:
as it should
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Well bring it on then, quit pussyfooting around the subject...

National writers and many here have deemed Hayward to be a top-5 SF... That's not just some title you earn, and thats the end of the story... He's gotta defend it, and certainly being outscored by the likes of Marcus Morris, Kentavious Caldwell Pope and Paul George isn't a particularly great start to the campaign.

This is the highest paid player on the team, If anyone deserves to get nitpicked, it's him -- NOT the games/skillsets of players playing well over their pay grades. or 19 year old rookies..



Thing is It's not just about Hayward - Basketball is a team game.. This team dynamic is different... If Favors is going to be this kinda effective, and Burks is going to operate at a career high PER, the Jazz have other good options, that typa stuff at-least should affect Haywards assists, which dropped from 5 to 4 in the past 2 seasons already..

People will come in here and apply logic to this situation, that they wouldn't to others. Just watch..

I like to question things that people find to be infallible, Many here subscribe to the theory that Haywards a top-5 SF, I've read better than Kahwi and better than Paul George, I'm sure many think Hayward is better than younger wings like Giannis and Wiggins too.

Hayward was ****ing awful in the biggest games of his Pro career right?? Obviously being somewhere between a bottom feeder and a mid-teir team the last few seasons hasn't really tested that.. I want to see him step up when the game is at a critical juncture, and take over.. Is that asking too much??
 
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not even going to dignify this thread with a serious response.
 
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PG_AB said:
Well bring it on then, quit pussyfooting around the subject...

National writers and many here have deemed Hayward to be a top-5 SF... That's not just some title you earn, and thats the end of the story... He's gotta defend it, and certainly being outscored by the likes of Marcus Morris, Kentavious Caldwell Pope and Paul George isn't a particularly great start to the campaign.

This is the highest paid player on the team, If anyone deserves to get nitpicked, it's him -- NOT the games/skillsets of players playing well over their pay grades. or 19 year old rookies..



Thing is It's not just about Hayward - Basketball is a team game.. This team dynamic is different... If Favors is going to be this kinda effective, and Burks is going to operate at a career high PER, the Jazz have other good options, that typa stuff at-least should affect Haywards assists, which dropped from 5 to 4 in the past 2 seasons already..

People will come in here and apply logic to this situation, that they wouldn't to others. Just watch..

I like to question things that people find to be infallible, Many here subscribe to the theory that Haywards a top-5 SF, I've read better than Kahwi and better than Paul George, I'm sure many think Hayward is better than younger wings like Giannis and Wiggins too.

Hayward was ****ing awful in the biggest games of his Pro career right?? Obviously being somewhere between a bottom feeder and a mid-teir team the last few seasons hasn't really tested that.. I want to see him step up when the game is at a critical juncture, and take over.. Is that asking too much??
Click to expand...

I really would have preferred another missing PG piece thread to this garbage.
I feel like this is all a troll attempt, and dalamon is smart to avoid this trap.
I'm not.

1. 3 games in isn't even remotely close enough of a sample. You know that.
2. This is a completely idiotic thing to even suggest. Even if it were true he was "falling off" then no one would give him another max contract and we'd have a solid player at the 2/3/4 whatever position you want to play him, because he can do it.
3. Hayward isn't just an offensive piece. Duh.
4. I really don't think Snyder wants an offense that depends completely on our #1 offensive piece carrying us. That game plan is the most simple to destroy.
5. Everyone has their bad games. Even the biggest stars in basketball today can go 2-20 from the field. Not every game is the same, pieces move, game plans change. This could just be a coaching decision from Snyder, we don't know.
6. Hayward 2 years ago got his stats because he had his ball in his hands like Russel Westbrook would, if you're not an absolute garbage player being the main offensive piece will rack you up/pad your stats. With more offensive tools we don't need to rely so much on Hayward, nor should we. (When he sat Hood had like 4-5 games hovering around 20pts)


TL:DR
This thread should have never been posted, and there shouldn't be any doubt in anyone's mind hayward is "regressing".
 
dalamon said:
not even going to dignify this thread with a serious response.
Click to expand...

This thread exists so it can be bumped at a later time. Will certainly do so at the end of November just to see how it's played out.

10 of the 13 games in Nov. are vs last years Playoff teams - that should be a better sample size.

Hayward was 3-12 from the field vs the 76ers, and their starting SF was out. He posted those stats vs minimum level players.. I'm not saying sound the alarm.. Just it's enough for me to raise an eyebrow, and keep track of moving forward though.. I thought it was thread-worthy, maybe you dont.. so be it



Posters here are hyper-critical about the rookies/mid-level players, thats commonplace. Yet a massive majority here will give Hayward a pass -- That almost seems queer to me.

I don't mind questioning it one bit -- I don't think this thread will backfire in my face, with Hayward dropping 30 nightly and winning MVP.. We shall see though..

Big's take longer to develop, when I see a bigman with stats that are steadily increasing like Favors -- To me thats a better signal than when you see it from a wing.

I'm more worried about Haywards chances for regression than Favors -- Perhaps that puts me in the minority here.
 
Jaymz said:
This thread should have never been posted, and there shouldn't be any doubt in anyone's mind hayward is "regressing".
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I knew people would disagree. Thats why I made the thread -- for discussion. I figured many responses like the part in bold would show up.

We shall see..
 
PG_AB said:
I knew people would disagree. Thats why I made the thread -- for discussion. I figured many responses like the part in bold would show up.

We shall see..
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I feel like a claim this BOLD should it turn out false, the user should be banned from jazzfanz for lack of team moral!!
 
Jaymz said:
I feel like a claim this BOLD should it turn out false, the user should be banned from jazzfanz for lack of team moral!!
Click to expand...

I'm not saying he's regressing, I'm saying could he ?? What would the conditions need to be, for that to be a valid question?? Or is it not even feasible?? Is it completely outside the realm of possibilities???

I'm not dealing in absolutes here. If he proves that absolutely there should've been no one questioning him, then yes. Bump this and It'l look bad - I'll take my L.
 
Jaymz said:
3. Hayward isn't just an offensive piece. Duh.
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They scored 95 points per game last year, 5th worst in the league.. If Hayward isn't clearly the first option on offense - Does that mean the Jazz are to outduel teams like the Warriors, collectively????
(instead of being led by the highest paid player?!) -- This is where I start to get fuzzy about the whole conversation.


Thru 3 games this season their scoring 94.3..
 
PG_AB said:
They scored 95 points per game last year, 5th worst in the league..
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Last year's offensive efficiency was 102.5, 15th in the league.

This year it is 99.6, 16th in the league.

With this small a sample, it is not a statistically significant difference.
 
silesian said:
Last year's offensive efficiency was 102.5, 15th in the league.

This year it is 99.6, 16th in the league.

With this small a sample, it is not a statistically significant difference.
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Thats all well and good. I'm talking about matchups here though.Whats having the 15th best offensive efficiency really worth in a series vs the Warriors.. It's still not even close to good enough.. That team isn't going anywhere..
 
The ASB? He has played at a high level all season. Hayward is doing everything but score and the Jazz have a winning record.
 
PG_AB said:
Thats all well and good. I'm talking about matchups here though.Whats having the 15th best offensive efficiency really worth in a series vs the Warriors.. It's still not even close to good enough..
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Well having the 15th best offensive efficiency is amplified when you have the #1 deffensive efficiency. Also the Jazz are not really competing with the Warriors this year. Their direct competition is the Pelicans, Kings, Suns, Mavs...
 
Scoring aside, seems like little difference when Hayward is off the floor.

Plus/Minus/36 min Jazz Rankings:

This year: Neto, Gobert, Hood, Favors, Booker, Milsap, Hayward, Burks, Ingles, Burke, Lyles (yeah, I know, small sample size)

Last year: Hayward, Exum, Hood, Favors, Hood, Milsap, Evans, Booker, Gobert, Johnson, Burke, Ingles, Burks
 
PG_AB said:
Thats all well and good. I'm talking about matchups here though.Whats having the 15th best offensive efficiency really worth in a series vs the Warriors.. It's still not even close to good enough.. That team isn't going anywhere..
Click to expand...


Yeah, I hear a lot of people debating whether we can tale a series against the Warriors. (head scratching)
 
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