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Bake My Cake

OK. I'll do my own back-and-forth on this.

The SCOTUS in the Age of British Intellectualism (roughly 1890-2020, say) has pursued a line of thought that defies the clear intent of the US Constitution as discussed and drafted by the original disputants. The ideas at the root of the US Constitution's design included very little reduction of States' prerogatives, and pointedly insisted on clearly stated declarations of citizen rights with regard to the Federal governments' proclivities for power grabs of various kinds.

In a Socialist society, as envisioned by British intellectuals, the government must become the caretaker, and the power of the government must derive from a sort of interested set of moneyed folks and their intellectual shills. We have gone far, far down the primrose path with these charlatans, and it is almost beyond our reach to recover the concept of actual human rights.

The SCOTUS, in taking upon itself the mantle of Supreme Constitutional Obliterator and Totalitarian Undertaker of Society, which is the actual philosophical underpinning of the SCOTUS label in progressive usage, has walked us away from private property rights, freedom of association, and the privileges of doing our own thinking and doing what we think is best in our personal business.

So, yeah, the thinker in me agrees with Bullet in his above statement that a person should have the choice in doing business. The nice little sign over the counter "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" means the proprietor is claiming an inherent God-given right to be a fussy little old biddy or an outright bigot in this business. No reason need be resorted to as any excuse.

So anyway, Bullet says this site is Jason's and Bullet upholds the human liberties all proprietors should have. It's their business.

So Jason can post a sign at the door and say "We reserve the rights of personal liberties derived from ownership of this site, and have the perfect right to refuse admittance to anyone, or to remove anyone's account." Most of us have paid no price for admittance, we have no entitlement to service.

But do we want, as a society at large, to do business this way? Do we want to insist that others treat us with some specific standard of respect and equality?

The "Bake My Cake" ruling says we do, and it is in effect a rule of law that imposes a duty of civility in doing business. I run into such rules in managing my rentals. Abiding by those rules has cost me nothing, and in fact I have found that people who are in the GLBT community make very good renters. They rarely push the limits of the rental agreement, and take very good care of the rented property.... pay the rent on time. Never have had a GLBT renter skip out on rent.
 
I'll keep bumping this topic.

I'm hearing a lot of conservatives of various types reporting that their media hosts.... twitter/google/facebook.... are doing stuff that is discriminatory..... with no explanation being given. When forced to comment because of a rising tide of questions, the replies are vague and general, referring to "community standards"

Newspapers and TV news has long done this.... insists on still doing it.... because they are owned by people who have "joined the club" of basically "management" for our national or world "community" of their own vision. For "news" this is called bias, and is false on the level of being fundamentally dishonest in the claim of objectivity.

For facebook or twitter, the future can be seen in Europe right now.

https://reason.com/archives/2015/04/26/the-slow-death-of-free-speech-in-britain
 
internet platforms like Facebook and Google are de facto community squares enjoying virtual monopolies on public access. Where else can you go, really, to do your thing.

Like JazzFanz, ownership carries a favored perspective on stuff. General rules on civility are rather susceptible, like ref calls in a basketball game, to whatever management wishes to see, and wishes to ignore. A lot less objective in nature in online communities than refs, generally. Well, unless it's playoff time, it seems.

So for whatever Social Justice Warriors we have amongst us, it is essentially a human rights issue like the bake shop case. There probably was nothing like a monopoly in the communities where GLBT activists went scouting to find a case to take to court. They probably went to ten shops before finding one owned by a dogmatic, overly-concerned Christian who would think to have scruples against doing the job.

Maybe more than ten. Maybe a hundred, even. It might have taken months of searching for someone who would refuse. I dunno about you, but I like to seize on the marginal business that walks into my shop, and do whatever it takes to have a sale. I wouldn't even think of objecting to who my customer is.

I don't agree with Bulletproofs assessment that a business is a legal entity any more than an individual is where there can reasonably be a distinction about conscience or comfort about doing business. Open to the Public is a clear standard. It is simple and straightforward, and should be a legal standard for all business. You can have a choice, either business or personal, about private acts, policies, principles, and the people you choose to serve. You can be private and "invitation only" or "members only". I'd say you can post the sign saying exactly who you will serve if you want. Blacks Only, Whites Only. Members Only. Contractors Only. Wholesale. Retail. That is your business.

If you post a sign that says "Open" it means "Open to the Public".

A site like JazzFanz could post a sign "Mormons Only", "Democrats Only", or "Marxists Only" whatever ownership wants, but like Facebook or Google, if there is no sign at the gate otherwise, it means "Open to the Public".

It might be a good idea to post the sign "Utah Jazz Fans Only" considering some of the people who come here to rub us the wrong way..... lol..... nah, we can handle that well enough, just give and take.

I can deal with folks who just hate me for who I am, or what I say, just fine. I don't bother to go where I imagine the folks would have no trouble agreeing with me. And no, I'm not "Mormon" or "Conservative" enough to just fit in with sites who post their gate rules that way. So I like JazzFanz. It's the best place I've ever found for a discussion on politics, precisely because of folks like Bullet and Red.

yah I sorta hate it when some react so hard to ignoramus conservatives that a slew of questionable offenses/infractions are resorted to, to run him/her "outta town". I might not agree with their view, but I like to see a range of views. Still, I think courtesy and civility are necessary standards even here. I might claim the "JazzFanz Thickest Skin" award, and consider the poor folks who can't stand reading a simple Christian's pathetic little defense of Noah's Flood or the Tower of Babel, or the destruction of Jericho or whatever, as just simpletons themselves with no better intellect. Of course the Bible wasn't written by the Finger of God and reflects in a large measure the pious but perhaps baseless comfortable views of another age. Of course The New World Order is a sorta brave pious new deal for the world whose underpinnings will need to be revised as we go along. It's a human attribute to resort to "Faith" in support of nationalism, or internationalism, or whatever we are hoping will make the world better. It's also a human attribute that whatever we know or could know today, we still won't know it all, not for a thousand epochs to come.
 
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