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Barkley Shaq Isaiah Reggie name Pimpslap 4th best stretch 4 in nba
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Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
In hindsight, Jazz would have been better off keeping Millsap and trading Kanter.
On the other hand, in 3 years, Millsap will be in decline just as the Jazz are ready to start competing. I tihnk our starting PF of the future isn't currently on the team (unless Favors can extend his game).
On the other hand, in 3 years, Millsap will be in decline just as the Jazz are ready to start competing. I tihnk our starting PF of the future isn't currently on the team (unless Favors can extend his game).
I wonder how they categorize stretch 4's.
Dirk
Love
Bosh
Millsap
Anderson
I'm guessing that is how the list looks.
Dirk
Love
Bosh
Millsap
Anderson
I'm guessing that is how the list looks.
Yep, I was always for keeping Millsap over Kanter.
Don't think Millsap will decline that bad. He will probably follow a David West type aging process, probably not as good of a defender though.
Will be interesting to see what Millsap gets paid this upcoming summer.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
Not saying his decline will be steep, but as the team rises, he'll be slipping. And at a high price tag.
Would love to see him in a Jazz uni as a backup seeking a ring. He will always be one of my favorite Jazz players.
Would love to see him in a Jazz uni as a backup seeking a ring. He will always be one of my favorite Jazz players.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
Have no idea what Paul would get paid. On one hand he is an All-Star PF (albeit in a weak conference) who has 3pt range, but he is also going to be 30 and is still considered to be undersized.
freakazoid
Well-Known Member
No way in hell we should have kept Sap, and I find it extremely presumptuous to assume Sap even wanted to come back. The mistake made with Sap was not trading him during the lockout year. Period. Bringing him back would have meant a continuation of our DENIAL of the fact we are in rebuild mode now, WHETHER WE LIKE IT OR NOT.
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Nothing bugs me more than people suggesting we should have tried to maintain a mediocre team rather than rolling the dice on trying to build something special. I love Sap as a player, and I would love to have him back, but for where this team is at, keeping Sap would have just compounded the mistake of screwing the pooch on the follow up moves after Deron was traded.
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Nothing bugs me more than people suggesting we should have tried to maintain a mediocre team rather than rolling the dice on trying to build something special. I love Sap as a player, and I would love to have him back, but for where this team is at, keeping Sap would have just compounded the mistake of screwing the pooch on the follow up moves after Deron was traded.
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spycam1
Well-Known Member
So many livin' in the past. Jerry ain't coming back, John and Karl ain't coming back, Sap ain't coming back and he does not play for the Jazz anymore. Move on.
Repped. Every once in a while there's something worth reading around here.
Joe Bagadonuts
Well-Known Member
This is sort of earth shattering news. Are you serious? How about Corbin, Boozer, Handglotten and Jefferson?
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
Jazz immediately informed Jefferson he wasn't in their plans after the season ended. But the media reported there were discussions between Millsap's agent and the Jazz right up until the GS deal came around. If you go back and read the newspaper reports (DN or Trib), there was apparently a divided FO on keeping Millsap or letting him go. And DMC also hung around until the Jazz informed him they were going in a different direction. But those chips didn't fall until AFTER GS made Lindsey an offer he couldn't refuse.
Also, remember early on, DL said they would be "value shoppers" in free agency. They were linked to quite a few players, including guys like Mayo. The team was rebuilding around Favors, Kanter and Hayward, but I believe there was serious debate on how that rebuild should proceed. Out with Mo, Foye and Al, but not necessarily out with Pal and DeMarre. But FA's were signing big contracts and GS stepped up with a great offer.
Had it not been for the perception of an historically great draft class, Utah may not have made the GS deal and chosen to spend their money on FA's, including keeping a couple of their own.
4/5: Millsap, Favors, Kanter
2/3: Hayward, DMC, Burks
1/2: Burke and F/A
Supplement with 1-2 key FA's. That's not a bad team. Still have youth, but also have a key veteran in Millsap. You can certainly argue that DMC would have been a better (and younger) fit than RJ. And Millsap was still young enough to give 5-6 more years of great play, eventually giving way as a starter to Kanter. He would have been an upgrade over Marvin Williams. Would have perhaps made the playoffs last season. Just for funz, assume the Jazz' pick would still have been Hood in the late teens/early 20's as we know he was valued that highly by Utah.
Essentially, Millsap and DMC were released to enable Utah to suck and get a top-10 pick. If Exum turns out to be someone special, it was a great move. If not, well, the terrible season was all in vain. Oh, except it gave Lindsey justification to get rid of Ty. So maybe even if Exum is a bust, it was still good.
Joe Bagadonuts
Well-Known Member
This is an excellent post, but it is still my belief that Lindsey was handling a sensitive situation in the best way he could, and that is why he did not just outright send Millsap walking. It was much easier to sell ownership and even the fanbase on it once he found the Golden State trade. Going full rebuild was a difficult decision (so difficult that the Jazz, prior to Lindsey, were incapable of making it) but it was definitely the right one.
And BTW, you can throw into your final paragraph that gambit could also pay off if Hood blows up. That certainly looks like a long-term possibility. I absolutely believe that Exum (high risk/high reward) was the right play at 3, and I think the Hood/Snyder pickups could be just the get out of jail free card that DL needs if for some reason Dante doesn't work out.
One last thing: I still don't understand why they didn't bring Carroll back.
♪alt13
Well-Known Member
I don't get it either
Joe Bagadonuts
Well-Known Member
It's weird. They pick up an ordinary looking stone then brush it off and discover it's a diamond in the rough... and then they simply throw it away as if it were nothing but an ordinary stone.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
Could be. As you said. it was a delicate and difficult situation. There are certainly enough mins for a 3-man rotation at the 4/5 (32 each), but all three guys wanted to start. And paying Paul big money would have potentially (if Kanter is re-signed), tied up a ton of money in three bigs, with Hayward's new deal TBD at that time. Also, we don't know what Millsap was asking for. It could very well have been in the $12M/per range. He had to take a bargain contract with Atlanta because they were the only team to pursue him after Utah backed away.
It WAS the right play to rebuild the way DL did. I just wanted to make the point that the FO was divided. And I think for that very reason Lindsey was brought in when he was. The rebuild started under KOC with the Deron trade. KOC also started to unwind contracts. I know many fault him for getting "nothing in return" for Boozer, AK, Millsap and Jefferson. What we DO know is those players WERE shopped. Heck, he even let Boozer go on a summer tour while he was still under contract and talk to teams, which was technically a violation of the "tampering" rules. But what KOC ABSOLUTELY did NOT want was to take back longer contracts. And it was the financial flexibility that allowed the GS deal to happen.
Lindsey comes into play as the new guy, with no ties to any of the players or the HC. In essence, KOC and the Millers can step back and put all the changes on his head, however unpopular they might be.
As for DMC, I think there were three reasons:
1. DL wanted as weak a bench as possible. Obviously, when you bring in RJ, Rush and Biedrins, you aren't trading to compete. Millsap, DMC or any of the other vets would have made the team better, resulting in more wins. Can there be any doubt when you have Lucas and Tinsley on the roster what the intent is?
2. I think DMC was undervalued and underdeveloped by the Jazz. High-energy player who gambled on defense. Not a very good shooter. And he would have remained that way had he not gone to Atlanta and found a bright assistant by the name of Quin Snyder to believe in him and develop his game. He WAS a diamond in the rough. But it took Quin, the gem cutter, to refine the many facets to his game and make him shine.
3. DL wanted the "core5" to play big minutes and develop together. Having another wing would have taken time away from Alec. Of course, DL didn't foresee Ty playing RJ and Harris so much (and moving Marvin to PF). DMC would have seen marginal playing time behind RJ. And Alec would have gotten 15 mins/per behind Gordon.
Joe Bagadonuts
Well-Known Member
^Another excellent post. You're killing it!