Because Trey Lyles...
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Handlogten's Heros
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Lyles doesn't suck as bad as kanter did on defense.
Also, Kanters offense is not great either. He holds the ball too long and doesn't stretch the floor.
Lyles is going to be one of the toughest covers because of his shooting and the pump fake drive. He flys past people which will collapse defenses and open up a lot for his teammates.
I want to see what he does when someone puts a big wing on him or plays him with a SF... to take the next step he needs to be able to bully those guys.
Also, Kanters offense is not great either. He holds the ball too long and doesn't stretch the floor.
Lyles is going to be one of the toughest covers because of his shooting and the pump fake drive. He flys past people which will collapse defenses and open up a lot for his teammates.
I want to see what he does when someone puts a big wing on him or plays him with a SF... to take the next step he needs to be able to bully those guys.
MDAV28
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Putting Lyles at the 3 feels like that diminishes his value. His value is stretching out bigs. His value is being able to take bigs to the rim. It's like when some writer suggested Porzingis play the 3 last year, it just doesn't make sense.
Lyles can create efficient opportunities on offense that Kanter could not. The ability to be a threat from deep and also create from deep with his drive and kicks, hitting cutters, etc are a lot more valuable than Kanter being able to bully into a post score and grab a few offensive rebounds. This is if you consider them equally bad defensively (which I actually do not)
Lyles can create efficient opportunities on offense that Kanter could not. The ability to be a threat from deep and also create from deep with his drive and kicks, hitting cutters, etc are a lot more valuable than Kanter being able to bully into a post score and grab a few offensive rebounds. This is if you consider them equally bad defensively (which I actually do not)
MDAV28
Well-Known Member
This is a weird comment to make. I mean I'm glad we have Lyles too but there's not many 2-guard prospects that teams would want more than Booker. True star potential and I think still 19.
He's definitely a 4 but I do think he CAN play the 3 sufficiently in certain match ups.
If I'm not mistaken I think LaMar Odom started out as a 4 or a 5 for the Heat too, then eventually settling as a 3 for the Lakers ?
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Lamar was insanely talented and was a really good ball handler. Lyles is a good ball handler but not on his level. Lamar was more athletic and was sooooo long, was a good defender. He was great when he played 4 and really good at the 3, but had a huge matchup advantage when at 4.
If that guy had his head on straight he would have been like a top 5 player in the league. Tough comparison imo.
No one's asking Lyles to handle like Lamar Odom, just asking him to guard switches on the perimeter and not get killed defensively. I have to think that if Joe Ingles can get by, then Lyles can too. Is it optimal, maybe not, but doable for some stretches.
That said, Lyles' game appears to have some similarities to Odom's. If he gets matched against a bigger, slower player he can go to the rim and finish (like he did against Dragan Bender). If he gets matched against a smaller player, he can either shoot over the top or bully his way to the rim. He can make plays in space with the pass or his basic handle. He can work as a combo forward for the most part.
The idea of playing Lyles at the 3 came up in the context of Hayward being out of the line-up.
ncoloradojazz
Banned
Kanter plays the worse defense I have ever seen, No lie. I have never witnessed someone so lazy on defense. He is will never be a starter because of it. His ceiling is 6th man. If he played defense then he could be a starter on a very good team
Now on to Trey, Kid can shoot the ball and yes he is bad on defense but I am sure his defens eis going to improve. His ceiling is also 6th man role. He is a tweener. Not physical enough to guard anyone in the post and to slow for SFs of the league. No knock on him at all by saying that is his ceiling. On a great team he is the big who comes off the bench and can light up for 20 in a half and get the team back into it if they are down. I don't ever see him as a starter and it is because of his defense.
I could see Trey or Enes both in race and winning 6th man of the year awards in the future. That is when Super6 himself retires. Supersix is Crawford
Ok but was Lamar that good freom the get go?
I mean was Hayward this good from the get go?
You've gotta look ahead right?
Miggs
Well-Known Member
I said late last season i thought he could play some 3. Will he struggle in defensive? Yes, some but I'm not sure it's any more than he will at the 4. The difference though is at the 3, he could have Favors and Gobert behind him.
Imagine two 2-4 minute segments a game with Exum, Hayward, Lyles, Favors, Gobert. That size and rebounding, wow. And the passing, shooting, and defense would be pretty damn good too.
Imagine two 2-4 minute segments a game with Exum, Hayward, Lyles, Favors, Gobert. That size and rebounding, wow. And the passing, shooting, and defense would be pretty damn good too.
Lamar didn't playthe 3 for the Lakers, and even if he did it was a different time and a completely different player than Lyles. If you play Lyles at the 3 you take away his value. Stupid, stupid idea. Why play him at the three when you can just play Joe Ingles? Lyles has no advantage over Ingles as a wing.
?? What position did Lamar play for the Lakers then?
Bynum
Gasol
Lamar
Kobe
Fisher
That's how I remembered that Championship team.
Miggs
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Ariza may have started and Lamar may have been their 6th man. I can't recall for sure.
You remembered it wrong. That lineup played 0 minutes in their first championship season and 77 minutes in their second championship season (7 total games). You can check it for yourself on nba.com/stats.
Oh ok, my bad... I'm clearly not a Lakers fan.. LOL
ncoloradojazz
Banned
lol Funny I said when Trey was drafted manye he could become an Lamar type player and I was made fun of and now people are comparing him to Lamar. When will most of you realize I am normally right? BTW lamar was a backup on those Chip winnign lakers team. Trey is a super 6 man just like Lamar was. Thing is they had a player named Kobe JellyBean Bryant. Some of yall muight of heard of him. Grant it he was no Hayward but he had a few good seasons.
ncoloradojazz
Banned
YEp, Wrong... they never started that lineuip but here dude is saying they did. I remember Lamar being the first big off the bench always. If Bynum came in then Pau rotated to the 5 and LO was the combo forward. They would look to get Kobe rest when LO was in the game also.
With every such decision you need to ask yourself, why you are doing it? What advantage does it give you and does the advantage outweigh the negatives? What advantage does Lyles playing as a wing give you? How do you see him abusing wings? His biggest asset is his mobility, shooting and ball-skills against bigs. In essence what putting him at the 3 is - eliminate his offensive advantage(i.e. he will be guarded by more mobile and athletic wings) and making him a complete liability on D where his lateral quickness is not good enough against bigs, let alone against wings. The only + I can see is that he might turn from below average rebounder for his position(PF) to ~average for his new position(SF). This is all horrible in my books.
MDAV28
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MUCH more than at the 4. Favors and Gobert behind him doesn't mean they'll stop his guy. When you allow perimeter penetration, the rotations kill your defense cause they'll just drop if off to Rudy's guy when he helps. Ironically, this is exactly why Lyles should play the 4 offensively because he can get by 4's and stretch them out of the paint.
MDAV28
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Nailed it bro.