Best Playoff Outcomes for Jazz Trades

[fishonjazz]

Rudy had won DPOY and was guiding his team into the playoffs before he was an all star.

Agreed. And I doubt he was considered a star player by most NBA fans and the NBA community at that time. Hell, even when he was an all star I dont think most in the NBA community considered gobert to be a star. He was constantly being dissed and made fun of and getting picked last etc. i know this because I was constantly having to defend gobert. And I was defending gobert to jazz fans lol.

I never said brunson and randle weren't good or winning players when new York acquired them. Just said that those 2 players in particular weren't stars when new York acquired them. Brunson in particular is thought of MUCH differently now than he was in Dallas. My point was that new York acquiring randle and brunson when they did wasnt some crazy achievement. Randle and brunson weren't on some kind of level like a Steph, Luka, KD, LeBron etc. they were good players. Not stars imo. They were more on a bojan bogdonovic/john collins level than a giannis, dame, kahwi, etc level. Brunson is a star now no doubt. But not at that time. Again, imo

And there are exceptions. I think wemby is a star right now for example. And each person's definition of a star is a little different I'm sure.
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[Megadoo1]

 

[fishonjazz]

View attachment 16338

gotta say no to acquiring him.
Tempting though. 26 years old is nice. Stats are ok but not quite good enough. (Needs to get to the line more and be a higher volume/better 3 point shooter. His efg isn't good)
I worry about his motor/drive/work ethic etc

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[jazznik]

My point was that new York acquiring randle and brunson when they did wasnt some crazy achievement. Randle and brunson weren't on some kind of level like a Steph, Luka, KD, LeBron etc. they were good players. Not stars imo. They were more on a bojan bogdonovic/john collins level than a giannis, dame, kahwi, etc level.

I think there are at least two tiers of players between the 2022-23 John Collins or the 2018-19 Bojan and Steph, Luka, Giannis.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

View attachment 16338

Gonna be a real iffy max contract if he gets it. He’s the guy I can see DA tempted by cuz the price may not be as high as other “stars”. I’d pass.

 

[jazznik]

This thread is a secret meeting place for all saboteurs who want to destroy the opportunity for the Jazz to draft a franchise player in 2025.

 

[whatthe]

Gonna be a real iffy max contract if he gets it. He’s the guy I can see DA tempted by cuz the price may not be as high as other “stars”. I’d pass.

Placeholder acquisition...Get him to trade him again.

 

[NAOS_pt2]

Anybody have any advanced stats on Ingram’s defense? iirc, A few years ago, he graded out pretty miserably.

 

[NAOS_pt2]

Placeholder acquisition...Get him to trade him again.

Mods, pls move this to the John Collins thread

 

[fishonjazz]

I think there are at least two tiers of players between the 2022-23 John Collins or the 2018-19 Bojan and Steph, Luka, Giannis.

Agreed. Also 2 tiers between pre Knicks randle/brunson and Steph Luka Gianni's etc. which is exactly my point.

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[NAOS_pt2]

Agreed. And I doubt he was considered a star player by most NBA fans and the NBA community at that time. Hell, even when he was an all star I dont think most in the NBA community considered gobert to be a star. He was constantly being dissed and made fun of and getting picked last etc. i know this because I was constantly having to defend gobert. And I was defending gobert to jazz fans lol.

I never said brunson and randle weren't good or winning players when new York acquired them. Just said that those 2 players in particular weren't stars when new York acquired them. Brunson in particular is thought of MUCH differently now than he was in Dallas. My point was that new York acquiring randle and brunson when they did wasnt some crazy achievement. Randle and brunson weren't on some kind of level like a Steph, Luka, KD, LeBron etc. they were good players. Not stars imo. They were more on a bojan bogdonovic/john collins level than a giannis, dame, kahwi, etc level. Brunson is a star now no doubt. But not at that time. Again, imo

And there are exceptions. I think wemby is a star right now for example. And each person's definition of a star is a little different I'm sure.
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I’m actually not sure what y’all are debating about. I just can’t stand for any judgment that’s based on all-star appearances, so I jumped in.

If a set of reliable stats indicate that a player is top-20 or top-30, then that means a lot more, imo.

 

[fishonjazz]

I’m actually not sure what y’all are debating about. I just can’t stand for any judgment that’s based on all-star appearances, so I jumped in.

If a set of reliable stats indicate that a player is top-20 or top-30, then that means a lot more, imo.

All star was just an easy simple concept to gauge what a star is as the way one becomes an all star is via voting by fans, coaches, players, etc. the entire NBA community votes to give a small number of players this honor. I think the honor of being called a star should also be a rather exclusive club that 2021 brunson doesn't belong in.

I look at it more like this. Let's say it's 2021-22 season and you and I are going back and forth saying who we think is the best player in the NBA. You start with Steph, I go with Gianni's, you say jokic, I say kawhi, etc etc etc on down the line. When does brunson (16 ppg 4 rebounds and 4 assists) come up on our list?
I mean he would definitely come up after gobert and Mitchell. You could argue bogie (18 points per game), Clarkson (16 points per game in less minutes), and Conley (recently on the all star team) all show up on our list before brunson and that's just on the jazz. Guys like klay, DeRozan, lavine, dame certainly would. Brunson was a good player for dallas. But he wasn't anything I would call a star at that time. Then after joining the Knicks he went from 16 points per game with Dallas to 24 in year 1 and 29 in year two with the Knicks. He did what Lauri did. Was Lauri a star player in 2021-22 when he averaged 15 ppg and 6 rebounds? I would say no.
If we are saying that brunson was a star while playing in Dallas then we might as well say bogey, and clarkson were stars when playing for the jazz and Lauri was a star for the cavs.
To me that is too low of a bar and cheapens the term "star player"

But that's just my opinion. I guess if people want to think brunson was a star back in 2021 then they can but that means that almost every good starter in the NBA is/was a star as well

The gist of the discussion was that "star players" like randle and brunson in 2021-22 are wanted by every team in the nba and therefore would never come to Utah. They would only go to the marquee markets like New York.

I think guys like 2021-22 brunson and randle would come to the jazz if the situation is right. Maybe not the actual stars like LeBron, Steph, Luka etc but good starters who aren't yet stars would possibly choose the jazz in free agency

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[NAOS_pt2]

All star was just an easy simple concept to gauge what a star is as the way one becomes an all star is via voting by fans, coaches, players, etc. the entire NBA community votes to give a small number of players this honor. I think the honor of being called a star should also be a rather exclusive club that 2021 brunson doesn't belong in.

I look at it more like this. Let's say it's 2021-22 season and you and I are going back and forth saying who we think is the best player in the NBA. You start with Steph, I go with Gianni's, you say jokic, I say kawhi, etc etc etc on down the line. When does brunson (16 ppg 4 rebounds and 4 assists) come up on our list?
I mean he would definitely come up after gobert and Mitchell. You could argue bogie (18 points per game), Clarkson (16 points per game in less minutes), and Conley (recently on the all star team) all show up on our list before brunson and that's just on the jazz. Guys like klay, DeRozan, lavine, dame certainly would. Brunson was a good player for dallas. But he wasn't anything I would call a star at that time. Then after joining the Knicks he went from 16 points per game with Dallas to 24 in year 1 and 29 in year two with the Knicks. He did what Lauri did. Was Lauri a star player in 2021-22 when he averaged 15 ppg and 6 rebounds? I would say no.
If we are saying that brunson was a star while playing in Dallas then we might as well say bogey, and clarkson were stars when playing for the jazz and Lauri was a star for the cavs.
To me that is too low of a bar and cheapens the term "star player"

But that's just my opinion. I guess if people want to think brunson was a star back in 2021 then they can but that means that almost every good starter in the NBA is/was a star as well

The gist of the discussion was that "star players" like randle and brunson in 2021-22 are wanted by every team in the nba and therefore would never come to Utah. They would only go to the marquee markets like New York.

I think guys like 2021-22 brunson and randle would come to the jazz if the situation is right. Maybe not the actual stars like LeBron, Steph, Luka etc but good starters who aren't yet stars would possibly choose the jazz in free agency

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People say the dumbest **** when they’re talking about sports.

 

[framer]

All star was just an easy simple concept to gauge what a star is as the way one becomes an all star is via voting by fans, coaches, players, etc. the entire NBA community votes to give a small number of players this honor. I think the honor of being called a star should also be a rather exclusive club that 2021 brunson doesn't belong in.

I look at it more like this. Let's say it's 2021-22 season and you and I are going back and forth saying who we think is the best player in the NBA. You start with Steph, I go with Gianni's, you say jokic, I say kawhi, etc etc etc on down the line. When does brunson (16 ppg 4 rebounds and 4 assists) come up on our list?
I mean he would definitely come up after gobert and Mitchell. You could argue bogie (18 points per game), Clarkson (16 points per game in less minutes), and Conley (recently on the all star team) all show up on our list before brunson and that's just on the jazz. Guys like klay, DeRozan, lavine, dame certainly would. Brunson was a good player for dallas. But he wasn't anything I would call a star at that time. Then after joining the Knicks he went from 16 points per game with Dallas to 24 in year 1 and 29 in year two with the Knicks. He did what Lauri did. Was Lauri a star player in 2021-22 when he averaged 15 ppg and 6 rebounds? I would say no.
If we are saying that brunson was a star while playing in Dallas then we might as well say bogey, and clarkson were stars when playing for the jazz and Lauri was a star for the cavs.
To me that is too low of a bar and cheapens the term "star player"

But that's just my opinion. I guess if people want to think brunson was a star back in 2021 then they can but that means that almost every good starter in the NBA is/was a star as well

The gist of the discussion was that "star players" like randle and brunson in 2021-22 are wanted by every team in the nba and therefore would never come to Utah. They would only go to the marquee markets like New York.

I think guys like 2021-22 brunson and randle would come to the jazz if the situation is right. Maybe not the actual stars like LeBron, Steph, Luka etc but good starters who aren't yet stars would possibly choose the jazz in free agency

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I also think that if the Jazz had wanted to add Randle over the past few years, they could have struck a deal with New York pretty easily. It's not like that guy wasn't riding the rumored trade bus for years.

 

[fishonjazz]

I also think that if the Jazz had wanted to add Randle over the past few years, they could have struck a deal with New York pretty easily. It's not like that guy wasn't riding the rumored trade bus for years.

Ya I mean they might be better without him. They look pretty awesome right now with him out of the lineup.

 

[HermanG]

Anybody have any advanced stats on Ingram’s defense? iirc, A few years ago, he graded out pretty miserably.

I would bet the grades arent much improved:

View: https://x.com/HarrisonWind/status/1721951998033977628

 

[Coach Ellis]

I'm about 90% against tanking. I just think it's a bad strategy if you are a good/well ran franchise with assets. If there is really nothing you can do to make forward progress, then sure, tank, but I dont think that is where the Jazz are.

I’m mostly in this camp. The time for tanking would’ve been immediately after trading Mitchell and Gobert. The Jazz never should’ve come into the season with Conley and Clarkson. It was stupid to not tear the team down to the studs (which they likely could have) and then burn it down to the foundation by making additional moves at the deadline. Tank hard one year for a shot at Wemby (when pretty much everyone expected the Jazz to be a bottom 3 team), sabotage Minnesota as much as possible by NOT gifting them a stabilizing influence like Conley then start building a better team this year and next without feeling a need to maximize your own draft position.

I get the argument for not wanting to get stuck on the treadmill in the middle, but banking on stars from the draft demands a much deeper commitment to tanking than the Jazz have been willing to do.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I’m mostly in this camp. The time for tanking would’ve been immediately after trading Mitchell and Gobert. The Jazz never should’ve come into the season with Conley and Clarkson. It was stupid to not tear the team down to the studs (which they likely could have) and then burn it down to the foundation by making additional moves at the deadline. Tank hard one year for a shot at Wemby (when pretty much everyone expected the Jazz to be a bottom 3 team), sabotage Minnesota as much as possible by NOT gifting them a stabilizing influence like Conley then start building a better team this year and next without feeling a need to maximize your own draft position.

I get the argument for not wanting to get stuck on the treadmill in the middle, but banking on stars from the draft demands a much deeper commitment to tanking than the Jazz have been willing to do.

The Lakers changed the landscape of the NBA by not taking that Conley trade.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I would bet the grades arent much improved:

View: https://x.com/HarrisonWind/status/1721951998033977628

Think he is mostly known as average to slightly below, but he's long and tall, so it's workable. He's also never been surrounded by good defensive talent.

 

[fishonjazz]

I’m mostly in this camp. The time for tanking would’ve been immediately after trading Mitchell and Gobert. The Jazz never should’ve come into the season with Conley and Clarkson. It was stupid to not tear the team down to the studs (which they likely could have) and then burn it down to the foundation by making additional moves at the deadline. Tank hard one year for a shot at Wemby (when pretty much everyone expected the Jazz to be a bottom 3 team), sabotage Minnesota as much as possible by NOT gifting them a stabilizing influence like Conley then start building a better team this year and next without feeling a need to maximize your own draft position.

I get the argument for not wanting to get stuck on the treadmill in the middle, but banking on stars from the draft demands a much deeper commitment to tanking than the Jazz have been willing to do.

Allah dis

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