Boston Marathon explosions......

[Stoked]

The older was 14? when he moved to the US. American, if not yet a citizen.

He may have felt like an American but he was not. I get the point you are making and am not arguing it. Just adding factual truth to your point.

 

[Siro]

The older was 14? when he moved to the US. American, if not yet a citizen.

That's not enough to draw any conclusions. I know some people who have been in the U.S. for a lot longer than 12 years, and they're not culturally American at all. I think it depends on other factors, like whether they assimilated into a mainstream community, or stayed with fellow expatriates.

 

[babe]

I see no reason to assume religion played a role.

For example, here's a blog post with a different theory.

https://scienceblogs.com/denialism/...be-concerned-tamerlan-tsaernev-read-infowars/

I don't think they were religious, but this is link is about as bad as you can get for unhinged hate-mongering. Not Alex Jones, but your "science blog". Obama has been to, and addressed the content of Inforwars in his own way as well. Are you concerned that Obama is taking his orders from Alex Jones? I think the bombers are just as dissimilar as Obama is from even the craziest conspiracy theorists on the conservative side who basically are wanting a return to open constitutional government the people can be informed about and exercise control of.

If I can speculate about where I think the people of Chechnya might be coming from, they are generally uniting around an Islamic identity in contraposition to Russian communism/atheism, and probably suspect that the Western roots of communism might validate an extension of their specific issues towards Western European nations and the United States. They are probably not good recruits for Chinese agents either.

But after the FBI identified their presence in this country, it would be nothing for them to have some people drop by into their lives on one pretext or another, speak sympathetically of their sentiments. . . . and after becoming friends of some sort begin to manipulate them into doing something like this. . . . even showing them what to do to make a crude but effective "bomb".

You seem to be hanging on the denialism of the ordinary statist who cannot question the capacity of government agents, especially government agents who are operating under the radar of supervision somehow and using their position and knowledge to do some evil of their own design.

Do you trust our visible and public government management to do everything you imagine they should do???

well, all I think I really know is that bombing human beings is a terrible evil thing. It challenges my imagination to try to figure out how or why. I don't outright dismiss any possibility unless I have positive knowlege to the contrary.

I also think a mass media campaign of fear-mongering like I've been seeing. . . . . is just evil, too.

 

[The Black Swordsman]

We've had this discussion before. You're focusing too much on my demeanor. I do need to control my temper a bit better, kind of like One Brow does. But none of what I said is wrong. It is simply that people find it unacceptable to "insult" religion.

So a small percentage of Muslims are actual terrorists. Nobody is denying that. But why does terrorism follow Muslims wherever they go? A coincidence? And while a small percentage of Muslims are terrorists, a massive percentage of terrorists are Muslims. How atrocious the consequences of an ideology must be before it can be criticized? And terrorism is not the only issue with Islam. Far from it. Why is it okay to program women to think that being treated like filth is the only way for them to maintain their dignity in the eyes of god? Why should I turn a blind eye to the sectarian violence that has claimed the lives of hundreds of thousands of people in the past decade? Because it's not the religion, it's the people? How strange it is to think that some old ideas written by men of ignorance deserve more protection than the people they destroy.

The issues with religion in general, and Islam in particular, are real and incredibly serious. The fact that people are trained to revere irrationality since the day they're born only makes my attacks more justified. I am sorry decent people get offended by my attitude. But the lives of those murdered in the name of Allah hold far, FAR, more value than the feelings of those who enable them. And they do enable them. The tens of millions of who support terrorist organizations financially, politically, and ideologically are part of the problem. And those people make up a much larger percentage than 0.01% or even 10%. When will it be okay for me to judge?

How about the Muslim public rise up and reject those organizations loudly, publicly, and with overwhelming numbers? Instead of, you know, sheltering them in their homes and towns? But no, they have their protests and their marches, and they paint them with words like democracy and freedom. But what they really want? A strict Islamic rule. Egypt's revolution was about getting the Muslim Brotherhood in power. Pretty much all of the protests related to the Arab Spring are about replacing "pro-Western" dictators with Islamic ones. Regardless of whatever fantasy about the longing for freedom that Westerners like to indulge in.

Edit: Also make no mistake, to them you ARE the enemy. Not to the terrorists, but to the average Muslim. All the liberal talk about tolerance and acceptance is unrequited. But it's okay. That's what makes the West superior. A culture that tries to understand and help everyone, regardless of the occasional villainy of their governments.

https://www.pewglobal.org/2012/06/27/pakistani-public-opinion-ever-more-critical-of-u-s
https://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/articles/brmiddleeastnafricara/361.php?pnt=361&lb=btvoc

Supplimenting FBI Data from 1950-2005 Saying only 6% of Terrorist Attacks Were Committed by Muslims, Europol Released a Report Saying From 2006-2008, Less Than .5% Attacks Were Committed by Muslims.

https://www.loonwatch.com/2011/11/updated-europol-data-less-than-1-of-terrorist-attacks-by-muslims/

Another "argument" from siro dismantled.

 

[Stoked]

Supplimenting FBI Data from 1950-2005 Saying only 6% of Terrorist Attacks Were Committed by Muslims, Europol Released a Report Saying From 2006-2008, Less Than .5% Attacks Were Committed by Muslims.

https://www.loonwatch.com/2011/11/updated-europol-data-less-than-1-of-terrorist-attacks-by-muslims/

Another "argument" from siro dismantled.

If anyone is a pro in getting their arguements dismantled it is you.

 

[Siro]

Supplimenting FBI Data from 1950-2005 Saying only 6% of Terrorist Attacks Were Committed by Muslims, Europol Released a Report Saying From 2006-2008, Less Than .5% Attacks Were Committed by Muslims.

https://www.loonwatch.com/2011/11/updated-europol-data-less-than-1-of-terrorist-attacks-by-muslims/

Another "argument" from siro dismantled.

As usual, you're parroting what someone told you without reading the source material yourself.

I looked up the Duke study mentioned in that article.

In
the eight years following 9/11, according to our project’s
count, 139 Muslim-Americans committed acts of terrorism-related violence or were prosecuted for terrorism-related offenses that involve some element of violence. This level of approximately 17 individuals per
years is small compared to other violent crime in American, but not insignificant. Homegrown terrorism is a
serious, but limited, problem.

Yes, the number of homegrown Muslim American terrorists is small compared to the total number of violent crimes! Um, okay. Good for them? But that has nothing to do with the relative prevalence of terrorism among Muslims. Additionally, the 6% figure that loonwatch.com website gives is nowhere to be found in the study, or the FBI link they gave. Not even the pie chart is on the page they cite. So I'm not sure how to respond to that.

Now let's look at actual numbers that are relevant to the discussion.

https://www.webcitation.org/query?u..._NCTC_Annual_Report_Final.pdf&date=2012-08-04

That's the Homeland Security's report on global terrorism.

Africa experienced 978 attacks in 2011, an 11.5 percent increase over 2010. This is attributable in large
part to the more aggressive attack tempo of the Nigeria-based terrorist group Boko Haram, which
conducted 136 attacks in 2011—up from 31 in 2010.

The Near East and South Asia suffered 7,721 attacks and 9,236 deaths. The majority of those occurred in
just three countries—Afghanistan, Iraq, and Pakistan—which, together, accounted for 85 percent of
attacks in these regions and almost 64 percent of attacks worldwide. While attacks in Afghanistan and
Iraq decreased from 2010 by 14 and 16 percent, respectively, attacks in Pakistan increased by 8 percent.1

Sunni extremists accounted for the greatest number of terrorist attacks and fatalities for the third
consecutive year. More than 5,700 incidents were attributed to Sunni extremists, accounting for nearly
56 percent of all attacks and about 70 percent of all fatalities. Among this perpetrator group, al-Qa‘ida
(AQ) and its affiliates were responsible for at least 688 attacks that resulted in almost 2,000 deaths, while the
Taliban in Afghanistan and Pakistan conducted over 800 attacks that resulted in nearly 1,900 deaths.
Secular, political, and anarchist groups were the next largest category of perpetrators, conducting 2,283
attacks with 1,926 fatalities, a drop of 5 percent and 9 percent, respectively, from 2010.

Suicide attacks rose from 264 in 2010 to 279 in 2011. In spite of the increase, this represents a sharp
drop from the five-year peak of 520 suicide attacks in 2007. Sunni extremists conducted 93 percent of
suicide attacks.

Over 12,000 people were killed by terrorist attacks in 2011. The overall number of victims killed,
however, decreased 5 percent from 2010. More than half of the people killed in 2011 were
civilians and 755 were children. Although terrorism deaths decreased, the number of government
representative and security force fatalities increased significantly. Muslims continued to bear the brunt of
terrorism, while attacks targeting Christians dropped nearly 45 percent from a five-year high in 2010

Shall I go on, or do you need some time to reformulate your defense of the terrorists?

 

[Stoked]

As usual, you're parroting what someone told you without reading the source material yourself.

I looked up the Duke study mentioned in that article.



Yes, the number of homegrown Muslim American terrorists is small compared to the total number of violent crimes! Um, okay. Good for them? But that has nothing to do with the relative prevalence of terrorism among Muslims. Additionally, the 6% figure that loonwatch.com website gives is nowhere to be found in the study, or the FBI link they gave. Not even the pie chart is on the page they cite. So I'm not sure how to respond to that.

Now let's look at actual numbers that are relevant to the discussion.

https://www.webcitation.org/query?u..._NCTC_Annual_Report_Final.pdf&date=2012-08-04

That's the Homeland Security's report on global terrorism.











Shall I go on, or do you need some time to reformulate your defense of the terrorists?

I feel that the comment above is unfair. He is defending Mulsims, even if he is very ineffective, and not terrorists. 1 does not always equal the other.

 

[Siro]

I feel that the comment above is unfair. He is defending Mulsims, even if he is very ineffective, and not terrorists. 1 does not always equal the other.

Then why does he keep justifying terrorism by using the excuse of century old occupations? And why does he continue to deny that terrorism is a serious problem for Muslim countries? All those tens of thousands killed each year don't deserve to at least be acknowledged? He even denies that Bin Laden was motivated by Islam! I've already explained my feelings toward the idea that ideology and those who follow it being separate. I don't want to keep repeating myself. TBS should admit that Islam suffers from a terrorism problem. Enough denialism.

 

[Stoked]

Then why does he keep justifying terrorism by using the excuse of century old occupations? And why does he continue to deny that terrorism is a serious problem for Muslim countries? All those tens of thousands killed each year don't deserve to at least be acknowledged? He even denies that Bin Laden was motivated by Islam! I've already explained my feelings toward the idea that ideology and those who follow it being separate. I don't want to keep repeating myself. TBS should admit that Islam suffers from a terrorism problem. Enough denialism.

You know what he is trying to do, defend Muslims. Yes he sucks at it and is an idiot. But don't stoop to his innaccuracies when proving him wrong.

 

[Beantown]

Are there any retards still out there that believe the bombing was "faked" or a government conspiracy?

 

[PearlWatson]

The supposed rationality of Liberalism/Darwinism is as dangerous as the supposed irrationality of Islam. They are both enemies to our Judeo-Christian America.

On Rationality and "scientism":

Assigning the development of human reason to a non rational process like natural selection ends up undermining our confidence in reason itself. After all, if reason is merely an unintended byproduct of a fundamentally non rational process then what grounds do we have for regarding its conclusions as objectively true. -C.S. Lewis
Even Darwin himself questioned whether the conclusions of a mind developed by Darwinian process could be trusted.

 

[The Black Swordsman]

You know what he is trying to do, defend Muslims. Yes he sucks at it and is an idiot. But don't stoop to his innaccuracies when proving him wrong.

He didn't prove any of my "inaccuracies" wrong. He is simply ignoring factual data. Only someone as simple minded and inferior intellectually as you would think I am an idiot and he is proving me wrong. You two probably agree with each other so much since you watch fox news. The FBI data added up the total amount of terrorist data and Islamic terrorist was less then .5% for 3 years. I already linked a Harvard paper on Islamic violence saying it is less than Christian violence. Siromar simply ignores all the facts and creates a fantasy world in his mind were all his lies are correct.