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Butler

Ellis269 said:
I like the premise of the idea, and the hope that the Jazz can turn assets into another star player. As I mentioned in a post a long time ago, there's basically 3 stages of team building -

#1.) Reloading - essentially 2012 in a nutshell - vets brought in to fill holes in the hope of maintaining a playoff level team. Didn't go so well, and DL decided to burn it down.

#2.) Asset accumulation - essentially what the past two "tanking years" have been all about. Gain or develop as many quality assets as you can and look to build around them for the future.

#3.) Power building - this is the next step. Cashing in assets for (hopefully) a contending team and a title run. This is essentially what Cleveland, Houston and OKC are trying to do right now.

The Jazz seem to have identified Gobert, Favors, Hayward and Exum as their Core players moving forward. They have some (but not much) cap space and a crap-load of assets to build around those Core4 guys. I think that Gobert's rapid development moved the timetable for power loading up by at least a year, if not two.

I'd love to get Jimmy Butler, but I don't really see that as a legitimate possibility. The cap jump is going to make adding top-level talent difficult for at least the next 3 offseasons IMO. The Jazz have three options to significantly add talent through assets #1.) trade up in the draft. #2.) wait for a star to force a trade, and be ready to make the best offer or #3.) identify a young star BEFORE they break out and overpay for the right to try to develop him.
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Good post
 
My Burke for Snell trade makes too much sense. Right now, Chicago needs a PG. They only have Aaron Brooks. At SF, they have McDermott. We need a wing. At PG, we have Burke and Exum.

Burke for Snell. Both teams win.
 
green said:
Here is the biggest question:

Do they "need" a star? Or do they already have 2-3?

I think we already have our stars. I think we have four. I think Exum will be the best of the bunch. I think Hayward is an Allstar as soon as the record improves. I think Gobert will be an all star. Favors wil be borderline.

So, I don't see us as looking for that top flight guy anymore. If we can get one, great!

But, I'm looking for complimentary pieces now. I'm looking for a solid backup Center, like Kosta Koufos. I'm looking for a starting 3&D wing, like Snell, Middleton, Matthews. I'm looking for a veteran backup PG. I like Burks or Burke to man the second unit. If I can flip one for a 3&D player, I'll do it (like Burke to Chicago, who needs a PG, for Snell).

I feel like the Jazz have their core and their coach. Now it's time to bring in players who can compliment and build our bench.

It's time to make the playoffs next year.
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You can NEVER have too many stars or assets. You should always be looking to get the next guy that puts you over the top. I agree wholeheartedly that Exum, Gobert and Hayward all have Star Player potential, and that Favors and Burks are not far off of that clip as well. . . but take that group and add any of Antetokounmpo, Harden, Butler, Leonard, Lillard, Thompson or Teague and this is a playoff team right now.

Ideally, the Jazz could flip assets to land D'Angelo Russell. If they burn draft picks to land the best player possible, they still retain the cap flexibility to buy a bench, and Russell is a guy who looks like he could have All Star potential down the road. The 76ers are draft pick whores right now, so there may be an opportunity there.

Start off with Gobert, Favors, Hayward, Burks and Exum. Keep Booker, Burke, Hood, Jingles and Millsap. Bring over Tomic and Neto. Sign one or two mid-level free agents. And then add D'Angelo Russell to the mix. I really like the potential for that team down the road.
 
green said:
My Burke for Snell trade makes too much sense. Right now, Chicago needs a PG. They only have Aaron Brooks. At SF, they have McDermott. We need a wing. At PG, we have Burke and Exum.

Burke for Snell. Both teams win.
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Don't you think he is too similar to Hood though? (you've said he is a 3 and D guy). I think Burke has much more potential the way he's been playing. I know DL highly values our players and won't let them go easily (see extension for Burks as an example). He really believes in the players we've brought up. There were rumours the Jazz could have traded Burke at the trade deadline but DL felt that young PG in this league takes time to develop so he decided against it - and lo and behold he had been playing very well after the All Stars break.


I'm not saying your trade is a bad idea, I'm just saying knowing DL's track record, the recent decision not to give up on Burke, and the fact that we still have Hood who hasn't even been given a chance to play (DL also mentioned he'll be with us for a LONG time), all these indicates that this trade is pretty unlikely at this stage.
 
Butler or Matthews and I'm happy. Along with one of them and another solid contributor and we're a 4th-6th seed. I think we'll have an easier time attracting players as the Jazz culture is changing. Some morons will always be opposed to playing here but guys who truly want to win won't be.
 
green said:
Here is the biggest question:

Do they "need" a star? Or do they already have 2-3?

I think we already have our stars. I think we have four. I think Exum will be the best of the bunch. I think Hayward is an Allstar as soon as the record improves. I think Gobert will be an all star. Favors wil be borderline.

So, I don't see us as looking for that top flight guy anymore. If we can get one, great!

But, I'm looking for complimentary pieces now. I'm looking for a solid backup Center, like Kosta Koufos. I'm looking for a starting 3&D wing, like Snell, Middleton, Matthews. I'm looking for a veteran backup PG. I like Burks or Burke to man the second unit. If I can flip one for a 3&D player, I'll do it (like Burke to Chicago, who needs a PG, for Snell).

I feel like the Jazz have their core and their coach. Now it's time to bring in players who can compliment and build our bench.

It's time to make the playoffs next year.
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So you'd rather have a mountain of low-level assets that might turn into absolutely nothing than a (nother) star player? Brilliant.
 
Jazz only have a shot if they throw a ton of assets at Chicago in a S/T. And I still don't see it.
 
ONE LOVE said:
Don't you think he is too similar to Hood though? (you've said he is a 3 and D guy). I think Burke has much more potential the way he's been playing. I know DL highly values our players and won't let them go easily (see extension for Burks as an example). He really believes in the players we've brought up. There were rumours the Jazz could have traded Burke at the trade deadline but DL felt that young PG in this league takes time to develop so he decided against it - and lo and behold he had been playing very well after the All Stars break.


I'm not saying your trade is a bad idea, I'm just saying knowing DL's track record, the recent decision not to give up on Burke, and the fact that we still have Hood who hasn't even been given a chance to play (DL also mentioned he'll be with us for a LONG time), all these indicates that this trade is pretty unlikely at this stage.
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What on Earth gave you the idea that Hood was a 3 and D guy?
 
Ellis and green both have valid points.

Yes, by all means trade any asset not named Hayward, Gobert, Favors or Exum to get a 5th stud starter. You only need a rotation of 8-9. We have that.

1. Priority #1 is to upgrade your starters if possible. I think DL will try that. He won't trade Exum, but he could bring in someone else who is ready right now to make the starting unit better. Exum then develops as a backup - or maybe even starts but plays backup minutes. Kind of like they are doing right now. Trey is averaging about 30 mins and Exum 24. In that scenario, it would be replacing Trey with someone who shoots better and shares the ball. I hate watching Trey who thinks he's the best ISO player in the league. And puts up shots with 6 seconds remaining when they're trying to get the last shot. SHARE the DAMN BALL! The other option is to bump Alec to a 6th man role. He would be fantastic, IMO. But again, not with Trey on the team.

2. Upgrade the bench. Need another big even IF Booker remains. Ingles, Hood and Millsap are decent, but could use an established player, especially of the "3&D" variety in case Hood ISN'T the answer or continues to have injury problems. Ingles and Millsap become deep subs.

I don't think DL is necessarily sold on Trey. Burke is helping us by improving his trade value. But why even bring in Cotton? I think Utah is auditioning potential 3rd-string PG's. And Neto is certainly in that mix as well.

The immediate priority was to trade Kanter. It's hard to pull off two big deals at the same time. I know Phoenix did it. Those came together nicely for them. Maybe DL has already had some preliminary conversations but needs this year's pick to get a trade down. Jazz would be crazy not to insist on top-3 protection. And the other team(s) might not want to accept a pick in a future year. DL did tease us a bit by saying they could do something at the draft.
 
You can only play 5 players at a time. And as great and fun as depth is, you need to know who you're going to close games with on a nightly basis. This is especially poignant if you're as down on Burks as everyone seems to be around here.
 
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