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BYU to the Big 12 discussion???

I know some BYU fans are already trying to cushion the fallout but I don't buy it for a second. Duck saying something along the lines of "if BYU ends up independent, that's what they wanted all along" is the perfect example of viewing this thing with blue-colored glasses (and it's Aggie blue at that). Make no mistake: BYU made this independence move with a future move to a BCS conference in mind. Anything short of that and this move is going to prove to be an unmitigated disaster. The basketball team was sold-up the river and will now be playing in high school gyms for the sake of a football team that's not going to be able to hold the fans interests year in and year out while they are an 8-to-9 win independent team.


No, because that's exact way it's going down. How I'm I covering for BYU when I'm telling you that they very well might be stupid enough to reject a Big 12 offer? It's better for them if you believe what you do and every one else the same. That way that aren't culpable for anything that happens to BYU football in the future in regards to conferences. Then Tom Homole will show up in some newspaper 15-20 years down the road talking about how it really went down and Utah fans will still claim they had no offer.

Independence is fine. Scheduling is improving. Anybody that thought BYU was going to have an out of this world schedule in year 1 is a moron. I don't think you need a conference for multiple more years. So maybe they will have made the best decision for BYU years out into the future because college football as a whole is unsustainable right now.
 
No, because that's exact way it's going down. How I'm I covering for BYU when I'm telling you that they very well might be stupid enough to reject a Big 12 offer? It's better for them if you believe what you do and every one else the same. That way that aren't culpable for anything that happens to BYU football in the future in regards to conferences. Then Tom Homole will show up in some newspaper 15-20 years down the road talking about how it really went down and Utah fans will still claim they had no offer.

Independence is fine. Scheduling is improving. Anybody that thought BYU was going to have an out of this world schedule in year 1 is a moron. I don't think you need a conference for multiple more years. So maybe they will have made the best decision for BYU years out into the future because college football as a whole is unsustainable right now.

Try telling that to Dave Rose.

Try telling that to the literally, MILLIONS of BYU/Mormons that would greatly prefer playing the likes of Oklahoma, Texas, and Ok St to Idaho, Idaho St, and San Jose ST.

Even if the schedule "improves" which I doubt it will significantly, since most teams are playing conference games in Oct and Nov, people still want a CHAMPIONSHIP to play for.

Just look at Utah, they STILL have an outside chance of playing for the Rose Bowl. It ain't gonna happen, but there's still a chance.

BYU on the other hand, has nearly NO chance at playing in ANY BCS game as an Independent. Even if they go undefeated. Once they slip up just once, or even twice, they're gone.

Getting into the BIG 12 at nearly any costs is the key. Not only for Football, but hell, for Basketball, track, Baseball, etc.

Just ask David Rose if he'd rather play Texas in an arena of 20k+ or St. Mary's in an arena of 2k?

Ask fans who they'd rather see play.

Problem with Sunday scheduling? Probably wasn't, since that is about the first thing that would have come to discussions.

Problem with BYU wanting their games played on their own network? F-that. Most people will watch the game on ESPN.

Wasted money on the network? All is well. Playing all sports in the Big-12 would have paid for that stupid network in a few years.

Playing on conference weekend in the fall? Who gives a damn? Play at night so only Priesthood session is missed. There's also such a thing called a TIVO. Members, fans, coaches, and players could just watch the missed conference session later. It's not like we're in the 1800's and all members must gather to Zion to hear the prophets. It might surprise some of you, but MOST members of the LDS church don't see conference live. Most (if they are even able to see it) see recorded broadcasts. We, as missionaries, never saw Priesthood session live. It was always the next day. It apparently was ok for our own spirituality. Why not here? TIVO folks TIVO. Internet. ENSIGN magazine.

Afraid that the Big 12 might collapse? It probably isn't. Besides, who cares? does joining the Big-12 prevent you from joining another conference after it dies? Why not join with other former Big 12 schools? What's NOT to gain by playing a few years in a BCS conference? If anything the PAC-12 might become impressed with the way BYU competes in the BIG 12 and ask for them to join. There's absolutely nothing to lose by playing in the BIG-12.

The Holy War, is meaningless as long as BYU is Independent and little brother is in the PAC. However, make it a PAC vs BIG 12 game, and it all of a sudden becomes important again.

Afraid that "the message" might not get out as well as Independence? Ummmm, nothing screams missionary work better, than playing games in the south year after year. Interest in the Mormon church and BYU would increase dramatically. Just think how much MORE attention would have been given to the Jimmer had he been tearing up all those black southern boys instead of poor high school teams like the Utes.

Just think how much less attention he will have received had he played the likes of St. Marys......

The wave of the future is big conferences. BYU might have f-ed up the only thing they could not have.

If that's the case, BYU is going to lose out on recruits, money, all the people that would go through the Provo airport, hotels, restaurants, and ski resorts that would benefit, and quite possibly the #1 important commodity, FANS.

I ain't watching a game against Idaho. I'll watch USC and Oregon. Jazzman and salty, pass me a red shirt please.

Arrogance and lack of vision is what has always held them back. Back in the day, they had the chance to join the Pac-10. They refused, and have since made "wonderful" history in the WAC and MTN West.........
 
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If you truly think that independence is better for BYU rather than getting into the BIG 12, then you either no absolutely nothing about college sports, or are a complete idiot.

I think Colton, a BYU professor, would even agree that staying Independence is a hugeeeeeee mistake.
 
Just look at Utah, they STILL have an outside chance of playing for the Rose Bowl. It ain't gonna happen, but there's still a chance.

I'm glad you are backing up the Utah fans by repeating their ********, because we're going to be hearing that line for the next decade as they struggle to win any games. Hey, guess what? Your conference absolutely blows if somebody is getting in the Rose Bowl with a terrible record. Congrats.
 
I'm glad you are backing up the Utah fans by repeating their ********, because we're going to be hearing that line for the next decade as they struggle to win any games. Hey, guess what? Your conference absolutely blows if somebody is getting in the Rose Bowl with a terrible record. Congrats.

Whether YOU want to hear it or not, it's true.

And that's one of the main reasons why BYU should use the independence as a way to get into the Big-12. Wouldn't it be awesome to have lost 3 out of the last 4 and still have a chance of playing in a BCS bowl game? It could happen (not likely though), in the Big-12.

Of course, from the sounds of it, BYU has already flushed that opportunity down the toilet.

And from the looks of it, you're interested in irritating Ute fans rather than having a somewhat intelligent discussion on this subject matter.
 
.....Independence is fine. Scheduling is improving.....

This is where you are DEAD wrong. While it is true that BYU is adding some nice teams to their upcoming schedules, it doesn't answer the problem of having a top heavy schedule year in and year out. Almost no team in the country would survive if you asked them to play their 5 toughest games of the season in the first 6 weeks. Regardless of who BYU is adding to the schedule, that still is a problem that remains to be solved. I'm sure you can get Notre Dame to agree to a later game if they have room for it, but that's just one of several. Most of the other conference teams BYU will be playing won't agree to later games. Obviously BYU could survive financially as an independent for as long as they like. I think the real question is whether or not the football program can survive long term independence withouth slipping into a deep rut of mediocrity. I dont' think they can. If it is true that BYU had an invite to the Big 12 and turned it down, I think it's a clear sign that they would rather focus on being a religious institution as opposed to trying to balance the religious aspect of the school along with the cut throat world that is BCS college football.

And if that's what they want to do? I certainly don't think there's anything wrong with that, but if that ends up being the case BYU fan better re-evaluate what their expectations are for this program going forward. Forget having debates about whether it's Utah or BYU who carries the "little brother" tag, Cougar fans will be debating that with Utah State fans in the future.
 
And from the looks of it, you're interested in irritating Ute fans rather than having a somewhat intelligent discussion on this subject matter.

You have zero reading comprehension. I don't disagree with you, therefore we don't have anything to discuss. As usual, you went on one of your rants as a response to somebody, when infact you weren't responding at all. The fact is though, nothing materially has changed for BYU since the start of this season if they have/do eventually reject the Big 12. I don't see why BYU fans are acting so flakey now and saying they are going to jump off a cliff or switch teams. Let it play out. If BYU football is eventually killed or completely irrelevant in the future due to some half-*** thought out independence idea , that's when you stop caring. We aren't at that point yet, not even close.
 
If you truly think that independence is better for BYU rather than getting into the BIG 12, then you either no absolutely nothing about college sports, or are a complete idiot.

I think Colton, a BYU professor, would even agree that staying Independence is a hugeeeeeee mistake.

For what it's worth, I mistrust the report that says BYU turned an offer down. Also, even if BYU did turn an offer down, it's quite possible that there were some conditions that we don't know about--like the Big 12 not going along with BYU's "no Sunday play" policy, for example.

But if BYU *did* turn down the Big 12 without a really good reason that is not being reported, I agree with you--it would be a huge mistake.
 
IMO, the Big 12 looking to expand would have served BYU better if it had come three years from now. BYU would be in a better position to see what independence looked like and how well it serves them. Coming after only one year of independence is a totally different story. Right now, they're still caught up in being independent and really want it to work. I'm not saying either thing is impossible (independence working or going to the Big 12).
 
IMO, the Big 12 looking to expand would have served BYU better if it had come three years from now. BYU would be in a better position to see what independence looked like and how well it serves them. Coming after only one year of independence is a totally different story. Right now, they're still caught up in being independent and really want it to work. I'm not saying either thing is impossible (independence working or going to the Big 12).
I guess it depends on how you define independence "working". Considering that:

1) BYU's on a sliding scale with ESPN where they might get buried
2) They have practically 0 chance of playing a BCS game
3) They're locked into an Armed Forces Bowl contract, where combined with point 2, means they're stuck.
4) They're not Notre Dame

I think it's safe to say that it would be the wrong move now, or in three years to turn down the offer. Unless they're just scared of getting exposed or something (I really don't say that to talk smack). Or unless somehow the finances aren't right (they lose a portion of their conference revenue for a portion of time or even indefinitely, which I would be skeptical of anything that extreme). But the ability to raise your program's profile and give it the potential to excel with the Big 12 vs. independence... well... isn't really something that can be debated.
 
I guess it depends on how you define independence "working". Considering that:

1) BYU's on a sliding scale with ESPN where they might get buried
2) They have practically 0 chance of playing a BCS game
3) They're locked into an Armed Forces Bowl contract, where combined with point 2, means they're stuck.
4) They're not Notre Dame

I think it's safe to say that it would be the wrong move now, or in three years to turn down the offer. Unless they're just scared of getting exposed or something (I really don't say that to talk smack). Or unless somehow the finances aren't right (they lose a portion of their conference revenue for a portion of time or even indefinitely, which I would be skeptical of anything that extreme). But the ability to raise your program's profile and give it the potential to excel with the Big 12 vs. independence... well... isn't really something that can be debated.
I agree with you. I personally would prefer to see them in the Big 12. I was just trying to look at it from BYU's perspective.
 
Or BYU feels that the BCS is a load of crap, dishonest, and is ruining the integrity of the game/spirit of competition. Maybe this is their way of saying, "We're not like Utah fans who bitch, moan, and complain about the BCS -- until all of a sudden they can get in, and then it's the coolest thing on Earth, and anyone who isn't in the BCS is garbage. Clearly."

I think both of those options are viable, and I approve of both. I hope BYU stays independent. I say that, knowing full well that I'm an idiot, and know/care very little about the economics of the whole thing. It just doesn't feel right joining up with the Evil Empire that we've all grown to loathe. It's like when the Federation finally just gave in to Palpatine -- and we all know how THAT turned out. (stupid Sith)

Anyway, HAHAHA @ Utah for sucking so bad this year. It has made BYU's sucktitude that much more bearable.
 
Or BYU feels that the BCS is a load of crap, dishonest, and is ruining the integrity of the game/spirit of competition. Maybe this is their way of saying, "We're not like Utah fans who bitch, moan, and complain about the BCS -- until all of a sudden they can get in, and then it's the coolest thing on Earth, and anyone who isn't in the BCS is garbage. Clearly."

I think both of those options are viable, and I approve of both. I hope BYU stays independent. I say that, knowing full well that I'm an idiot, and know/care very little about the economics of the whole thing. It just doesn't feel right joining up with the Evil Empire that we've all grown to loathe. It's like when the Federation finally just gave in to Palpatine -- and we all know how THAT turned out. (stupid Sith)

Anyway, HAHAHA @ Utah for sucking so bad this year. It has made BYU's sucktitude that much more bearable.

54-10. That being said, if they turned down the Big12(which I highly doubt) they will become irrelevant as far as college football goes.
 
As a Ute player once said, "BYU is our bowl game". It seems as this season goes on that game means more and more to Ute fans. Happy to help you through the rough times, Little Brother.
 
As a Ute player once said, "BYU is our bowl game". It seems as this season goes on that game means more and more to Ute fans. Happy to help you through the rough times, Little Brother.

That would be true if both teams were actually in a meaningless conference and didn't have much of a shot at a good bowl game. Now that one has a conference and the other is irrelevant until they get into one.... I would venture a guess that it meant more to the BYU fans than the Utah fans to play each other this year.
 
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