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C.J McCollum available?

No way Portland trades McCollum for Favors. They'd want Hayward at the least, maybe even Rudy. Bottom line, jazz can't get CJ for anything they'd consider giving up.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Their GM is trying to save his job. They have so many parts that don't fit it is hard to see how good they are. CJ is the best player of that group now and likely in the future. I can't tell if Gordon is a tweener or being used out of position, but let's not act like he's been great. Mario has been horrendous. Biyombo is overpaid imo.
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All of this.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Their GM is trying to save his job. They have so many parts that don't fit it is hard to see how good they are. CJ is the best player of that group now and likely in the future. I can't tell if Gordon is a tweener or being used out of position, but let's not act like he's been great. Mario has been horrendous. Biyombo is overpaid imo.
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Umm it's 1000% he is being played out of position on a team that has **** spacing and PG play. Put Aaron Gordon on the Blazers with Lillard and their excellent spacing and he is going to be phenomenal. It would be looked at as a steal down the line if they got the deal done IMO.

What if the deal was revised to somehow to include Ibaka and Gordon?
 
CJ McCollum has become overrated in JFC eyes it seems. The dude plays 0 defense. He is a great player, but he isn't anyone a team should gut their roster for.
 
ONE LOVE said:
Steph Curry also plays 0 defense. What's your point?
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He plays more defense than CJ. He is also Steph Curry, a guy who is a top 10 offensive player of all time, he has more leeway in getting away with less than stellar defense.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Umm it's 1000% he is being played out of position on a team that has **** spacing and PG play. Put Aaron Gordon on the Blazers with Lillard and their excellent spacing and he is going to be phenomenal. It would be looked at as a steal down the line if they got the deal done IMO.

What if the deal was revised to somehow to include Ibaka and Gordon?
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Spacing and pg play are definitely part of the problem. He can't shoot straight... shooting 59% from the line. He has a fatal flaw and he is a decent defender for a guy who switches out as a 4, but not elite (yet). He doesn't rebound well enough to play four full time. I see a lot of stuff that could make him a really good player, but he might just be a worse shooting AK type. Anything being projected to Mario is pure speculation at this point. He has flat out sucked in all phases of the game.

Give me CJ... he doesn't play defense but he could change your offense. 50,40, 90 with high volume of 3s does not grow on trees. Can create his own shot and has serious gravity. Can figure out how to cover him up on defense.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Spacing and pg play are definitely part of the problem. He can't shoot straight... shooting 59% from the line. He has a fatal flaw and he is a decent defender for a guy who switches out as a 4, but not elite (yet). He doesn't rebound well enough to play four full time. I see a lot of stuff that could make him a really good player, but he might just be a worse shooting AK type. Anything being projected to Mario is pure speculation at this point. He has flat out sucked in all phases of the game.

Give me CJ... he doesn't play defense but he could change your offense. 50,40, 90 with high volume of 3s does not grow on trees. Can create his own shot and has serious gravity. Can figure out how to cover him up on defense.
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AK would have been a great player if he played on an uptempo team with shooters....

And, you might not know, but most trades involve proven player or players for players you are projecting. Rarely is a trade a really good guy for a really good guy of equal value.

CJ seems more like a product of Lillard and an uptempo system than being actually being a great all-star level player.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
AK would have been a great player if he played on an uptempo team with shooters....

And, you might not know, but most trades involve proven player or players for players you are projecting. Rarely is a trade a really good guy for a really good guy of equal value.

CJ seems more like a product of Lillard and an uptempo system than being actually being a great all-star level player.
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I do know how these trades work and when you get proven talent for speculative players you generally have to combine a bunch of them to make it worth it to the team trading away a proven player.

Not sure on the stats without Lillard, but Dame missed 7 games last year. CJ played in 6 of them and averaged 26 and 7 on decent efficiency... They went 4-2 in those games.

System A does not make a player complete garbage and System B does not make a player an All-star. The chances CJ's numbers go up are just as good as them going down. He'd have the ball in his hands more on a team without Dame.

Gordon would be a worse shooting AK too... don't forget that point. I like the guy and think he's got talent, but he has some limitations that may never solve themselves and outside of sweet dunks his other gifts haven't produced things that make a difference.

Again give me CJ on this one and it's not that close.
 
CJ is roughly the same tier of player Gordon is... take off the homer glasses just a little. I prefer Gordon because he is a two way player and presents more position flexibility... But here is the question... would you trade Hayward for Gordon, Mario, etc.? What if he was extended for the next four years already? Would you do it for Gordon, Mario, 1st rounder, and more?

4 quarters don't make a dollar in trades.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I do know how these trades work and when you get proven talent for speculative players you generally have to combine a bunch of them to make it worth it to the team trading away a proven player.

Not sure on the stats without Lillard, but Dame missed 7 games last year. CJ played in 6 of them and averaged 26 and 7 on decent efficiency... They went 4-2 in those games.

System A does not make a player complete garbage and System B does not make a player an All-star. The chances CJ's numbers go up are just as good as them going down. He'd have the ball in his hands more on a team without Dame.

Gordon would be a worse shooting AK too... don't forget that point. I like the guy and think he's got talent, but he has some limitations that may never solve themselves and outside of sweet dunks his other gifts haven't produced things that make a difference.

Again give me CJ on this one and it's not that close.
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Yeah, when you are trading for an All-Star. CJ is not an All-Star. He is an offensive player who regularly puts up some of the worst defensive numbers in the NBA. His numbers wouldn't go up on the Magic, he would be look much worse.

I'm 100% positive Gordon would end up being the better player between the two if they changed teams, can guarantee it.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
CJ is roughly the same tier of player Gordon is... take off the homer glasses just a little. I prefer Gordon because he is a two way player and presents more position flexibility... But here is the question... would you trade Hayward for Gordon, Mario, etc.? What if he was extended for the next four years already? Would you do it for Gordon, Mario, 1st rounder, and more?

4 quarters don't make a dollar in trades.
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No I wouldnt trade Hayward for those players becasue those players don't fit our team. And Hayward is way better than CJ, it's not close.
 
The Sixers could offer Noel + Saric. Not sure if that gets it done for Porty though. If Ben Simmons is going to play on the guard line, they could run him with McCollum.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Yeah, when you are trading for an All-Star. CJ is not an All-Star. He is an offensive player who regularly puts up some of the worst defensive numbers in the NBA. His numbers wouldn't go up on the Magic, he would be look much worse.

I'm 100% positive Gordon would end up being the better player between the two if they changed teams, can guarantee it.
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If IT can be an all star then CJ could be. Worst defensive numbers in the NBA... don't think so. He's also matching up against 2 guards when he's more of a point guard and should play with a bigger backcourt partner... they also have zero rim protection.

I don't think CJ craters a defense like a bad defensive big does... guys that shoot like CJ have so much gravity that everyone is better around them. Gordon hurts his teams offense as much or more than his defense helps his team. He's not a lock down defender yet... I'm not even sure he's really good yet. He's shooting 37, 27, 59. Go look at his shot chart...
 
I think CJ would be a super-sub on most contending teams, a guy who has green light to score and create with the second unit, kind of like Manu with the Spurs or Jason Terry with the Mavs. These days teams want 2-guards to switch on defense and hold their own on the boards.
 
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