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Can the Trumpster fire come back from this?

The supreme court has already ruled that the 2nd amendment is an individual right and that it applies to personal defense. They aren't going to reverse themselves on that decision, in fact they won't even hear that case again. Opposing Hillary on gun rights grounds has nothing to do with reality. The things she cold do, if she can manage to do them at all, will be mostly inconsequential, imo.

It is true that the Court does not like to overturn past decisions. But with a changed court, the Heller decision wouldn't need to be flat out overturned. Future cases could just make modifications/clarifications so while you have a personal right to a gun, those rights would be so limited it wouldn't mean much of anything which would effectively make the Heller decision moot.

It is unfortunate that our court is so politically polarized. It shouldn't be that way.
 
In regards to you two, I have to say that the majority of Evangelicals do not support Trump. There's a few here and there, including some that I know, but the vast majority does not approve of Trump. I think there's a bit of hyperbole with that take.

As far as we can tell from polls etc., white evangelicals by far and away approve of and are voting for Trump. This isn't really in question.
https://religionnews.com/2016/10/11/poll-trump-support-remains-steady-among-evangelicals/
(this is just one of many articles/polls)

The article laid out how both Reagan and Trump courted evangelicals through strategic language. The author points out how both of these candidates had similar backgrounds as actors living in Liberal hotbeds. White evangelicals are just one of the major groups Trump has courted with his language. There are plenty of great people who are evangelicals, but the author's take on this is cogent and persuasive.
 
As far as we can tell from polls etc., white evangelicals by far and away approve of and are voting for Trump. This isn't really in question.
https://religionnews.com/2016/10/11/poll-trump-support-remains-steady-among-evangelicals/
(this is just one of many articles/polls)

The article laid out how both Reagan and Trump courted evangelicals through strategic language. The author points out how both of these candidates had similar backgrounds as actors living in Liberal hotbeds. White evangelicals are just one of the major groups Trump has courted with his language. There are plenty of great people who are evangelicals, but the author's take on this is cogent and persuasive.

I would argue that the majority of those who consider themselves Evangelicals are just people who say they believe in God and go to church sometimes, but that's just me. Difference between them and what I'm talking about, imo.
 
I think Trump forgets that it is Congress who has to pass laws like term limits, and they are not likely to vote against their own interests (even when a majority of their constituents are in favor). He believes that he can bend them to do his will, but I suspect it will be an eye-opening experience for him, if he gets the chance anyway.
 
Did you know that the Supreme Court doesn't just revisit it's previous rulings?

well, not without good reason, let's say. Hopefully. But for folks today who call our law, our Constitution, "living" standards, it is supposed to change when things change.
 
I would argue that the majority of those who consider themselves Evangelicals are just people who say they believe in God and go to church sometimes, but that's just me. Difference between them and what I'm talking about, imo.

I pretty sure there are some sharp differences among specific local churches on this issue. What you need to do is float around a little and see what's being said outside your little niche.
 
I've often referred to the age we live in as the Age of Conspiracy Theories. At the level of popular culture, conspiracy thought is endemic. What Donald Trump is doing is maximizing this trend to create an alternative political reality with it's foundation in the Rigged Election Conspiracy Theory. Millions of Americans do and will continue to live in this alternate reality. A political movement rooted in, and launched from, conspiracy thought. An alternate interpretation of current events rooted in conspiracy thought. An irrational political movement. Perhaps a new media empire where Alex Jones, Brietbart News, and the Drudge Report can contribute to establishing a fantasy reality, home of the uneducated.

Donald Trump isn't going anywhere. There has always been a plan B. A far right media empire that will make Fox News look liberal:

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/10/17/13304110/trump-tv-jared-kushner

https://www.commondreams.org/views/...oger-ailes-cooking-post-election-media-empire

This may be the best summary I have come across yet describing the various elements of the Trump coalition:

Trump the Arsonist.
Evangelicals, Survivalists, the Alt-Right, and Hurricane Donald:

https://www.tomdispatch.com/post/176197/tomgram:_john_feffer,_slouching_toward_the_apocalypse/

"Next month's election is important. But the core supporters of Donald Trump are not going to move to Canada -- or Russia -- if their candidate loses. Those who crave the simplistic, authoritarian solutions offered by dangerous populists around the world are not going to retreat into political apathy simply because of the scorn heaped upon them by the mainstream. The apocalyptic rhetoric of Trump and his followers is a self-fulfilling prophecy. The gale-force winds of this populist hurricane have been intensified by decades of polarizing economic and social policies. Whatever happens in November, the forecast is for more stormy weather ahead."

Nope, he isn't going anywhere. He has only just begun to damage American democracy....

I'm pretty sure your reading list is pretty narrow, mostly heavily vested ideologues from the progressive left.

It's a pretty silly way to classify people that attempts to discredit opinions out of hand.

Few people with much to do with the "real world" outside of the ivory towers you frequent, would dispute the realities of interest groupings working together at times for common benefits.
 
I'm pretty sure your reading list is pretty narrow, mostly heavily vested ideologues from the progressive left.

It's a pretty silly way to classify people that attempts to discredit opinions out of hand.

Few people with much to do with the "real world" outside of the ivory towers you frequent, would dispute the realities of interest groupings working together at times for common benefits.

Been ages since I frequented any ivory towers at all. Basically, I understood what Trump represented the day he descended the escalator in his own NYC Tower. And I've just gone from there. I saw through him on day one, in other words. Didn't require reading anything at the time. "Here comes a demagogue, and this cannot be a good development". I trust my instincts at times. He's done nothing to prove my instincts about him wrong. I have the benefit of being retired, and understanding that I was witnessing history, I have spent hours every day studying the man and his followers. And I was not at all surprised that he declined to say he would accept the results of November 8th. In fact, I knew he would not. I do trust my instincts on the man. I can find many pundants who obviously agree with me, but I stand on my own most of the time, and just trust what I see....
 
Been ages since I frequented any ivory towers at all. Basically, I understood what Trump represented the day he descended the escalator in his own NYC Tower. And I've just gone from there. I saw through him on day one, in other words. Didn't require reading anything at the time. "Here comes a demagogue, and this cannot be a good development". I trust my instincts at times. He's done nothing to prove my instincts about him wrong. I have the benefit of being retired, and understanding that I was witnessing history, I have spent hours every day studying the man and his followers. And I was not at all surprised that he declined to say he would accept the results of November 8th. In fact, I knew he would not. I do trust my instincts on the man. I can find many pundants who obviously agree with me, but I stand on my own most of the time, and just trust what I see....

You're making incoherent statements here about how "it didn't require reading anything" and later "spending hours studying the man and his followers". I could claim to have just known everything outright and brag about immersing myself in material that just vindicates my initial prejudices, except that's not true of me or a lot of other people.

It would come off glib to observe that Trump's appeal to many people is precisely because there are so many people being just done with the ways you approve and your reasons for approving those ways. Of course you can dismiss them as deplorable ignoramuses and rest on your historical laurels, or run out any of a number of insults to Trumpsters and Trump himself. But I sorta think the real issue is all that Hillary represents.

Is Hillary the norm you want for the next 100 years? My guess is that your answer is "yes" to that. To me, that discredits your entire claim to education, to historical perspective, to valid instincts, and to the culture that you choose to associate with.

I don't think anyone knows Trump, as he is actually unpredictable on purpose. It's his mode of conduct. After so many years of politicians following the perfect standards for campaigning and public manipulations, a lot of people are just done with the usual political show.

I've seen you embrace without criticism a lot of media trash and pass it along as scholarly fact, so I'm doubting your insticts and your "history". I think you are a sad case of delusional fantasy....

yah, and I expect the JazzFanzers to be nitwits enough to say the same of me.

Actually, I've had to change my opinions of Trump about every other week, but more and more, he is making intelligent, informed statements about things a lot of politicians have not understood.

For example, if the Supreme Court reversed Roe v. Wade, without legislating something in its place, the issue would fall to the individual states, and people would just go where they needed to go to get the law, and the services, the way they want it. Tenth Amendment plus no national definition of the legalities of protecting either fetus or mother in the process. I'm not sure that's the best way, but I'm sure we will not ever have unanimity on the issue, and I'm tired of statists politicizing the issue. I think we have a human being from the instant of conception but who can place a value on that if the parents fail to. The full term abortion/merchandizing of parts is macabre. I know our medical technologies/services can save many babies from twenty weeks on, and a lot of people believe it's good to do that.

Trump is pretty smart to get the Federal government outta the business of legislating this. If you believe the world is overpopulated and you believe we must reduce population, you will arrive at a different conclusion. I just don't want our Federal government being empowered to impose those imperatives.

Trump's got JFK's economic plan in view, the same one Reagan did pretty well with, and I think we will prosper with it. If you believe America should be leveled with the rest of the world economically, as Obama and Clinton do, you will see that idea as practically evil. I might think it evil to deliberately impoverish Americans while professing to be their advocates, but that's because I know Hillary for the Demagogue she is, really.

We can trade insults forever, if you wish, but the words you wrap yourself with just don't look right to me, and your beliefs don't look right to me, and your education looks suspect for all your fond memories of your career and your study. You'd have to be willing to take a fresh look at everything you believe to look credible to me. Failing of that, I sorta sense I'm talking to an echo chamber from a failed past.

I think it was about 1973 when I first encountered the distinct recognition of a fully vested ideologue who howled at the idea that we have a production problem and asserted we have a population problem. The ideas were planted in Cbina around 1950 by the Ford Foundation, and population controls were instituted along with Mao's agrarian reforms that forced doctors to hoe weeds and everyone reduce their material living circumstances. I believed from about 1970 that the material welfare of the United States could not be sustained by raw materials and labor from the poor nations, that there needed to be more of a parity. My opinion has always been that the repressive governments around the world have hindered rather than helped the human race, and seeing Hillary bringing the same toolbag to manage America is just not, imo, going to do anybody any good.

I'd rather reform the UN to require members to implement constitutional limits on governance and send fairly elected representatives to the UN than go on with fascism. Hillary represents unbridled fascism, cronyism and corruption and massively abusive government power. She is the real "demagogue", and if you can't see that I can only conclude you won't see anything in whatever I could possibly try to say.

Is Trump different? Well, he talks different, and a of people hope he will turn out different.
 
[MENTION=3085]Red[/MENTION]

So I just came across the news of your heart attack..

Pretty sure you don't need to worry about my arguments for a while. Get yourself on a steady path and manage the stress. Listen to the docs and go easy on the beef. I do beef cattle but I swear every time I eat a steak I can feel the grease inside my arteries. . . .course some can handle it no doubt, but at least for me I should do sunflower seeds and fish. Not canned fished, good fish fresh caught.
 
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