Can We Please Just Waive NWG?

[infection]

I’m not against it at all. It’s not a controversial either. Like I said before, Shaq is the worst kept secret online. Lowe just made a joke on a podcast on how every fan went crazy when CHI didn’t extend him a QO.

I simply said that there’s something we don’t know about Shaq’s situation. Could be many things. But the idea that this is a UTA specific issue...yeah that doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.

Never disagreed with the idea of signing Shaq or another defensive player. I think it’s laughable that we’re taking this so seriously and using this is a prime example of the FO incompetence. You don’t have to look hard for that.

I think what you’re witnessing is that we’ve really dumbed this down. We’re not arguing for the obvious moves of moving Mike, because they absolutely refuse to do that. We’re looking at the hand we’re dealt and thinking even the small victories would be nice, so we’ve moved to the 14th man and we still can’t make the painfully obvious decision. If we want to move on from this and go to even lesser issues, I can’t imagine how bitchy that would look. So we can either be unrealistic in big moves or we can be bitchy about small moves.

 

[infection]

I think what you’re witnessing is that we’ve really dumbed this down. We’re not arguing for the obvious moves of moving Mike, because they absolutely refuse to do that. We’re looking at the hand we’re dealt and thinking even the small victories would be nice, so we’ve moved to the 14th man and we still can’t make the painfully obvious decision. If we want to move on from this and go to even lesser issues, I can’t imagine how bitchy that would look. So we can either be unrealistic in big moves or we can be bitchy about small moves.

I would say it’s kind of like when kids are in coach pitch baseball. When they can’t hit the moving pitch from the coach, you bring the T out. Well, our guy whiffed on all those pitches, so we brought the T out and we’re all cheering for him to put the bat on that ball, and spectators are thinking “man, why are they making such a big ****ing deal, it’s not like he’s hitting a pitch, it’s a T for hell sake!” Then our kid goes into his swing and *thud*, smacks the shaft of the T.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

This is a red herring because he won’t play precisely because he shouldn’t play. Hell, even when we had Conley our with injury he still didn’t play. I’ve already made the point that it didn’t matter if Neto was injured half the time you needed him because NWG wouldn’t get minutes in 100% of the times that you’d reach for Neto. So NWG never seeing the floor is distorting the potential for that spot.

Ingles and Royce were brought in as those guys.

There at least are situations where you’d bring in Shaq or Andre even when fully healthy.

 

[KqWIN]

You guys have some awful analogies lol.

I get it, the FO sucks and made some terrible decisions. But if we can't talk objectively about their moves or process, it's not much different than blindly following and supporting everything they do. I can't follow this logic of the Jazz suffering because their conservative, reactive, not aggressive ect. when they just made one of the worst moves of the past decade and possibly squandered the careers of Gobert + Mitchell. We're in a bad spot because of aggressive, yet awful moves.

I suppose that it is a more pleasant existence to look at everything negative, because you're either pleasantly surprised or you were right and you can try to brag about it online. But this is how you can turn into a maniac going over NWG vs some other player that no team wants

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I think what you’re witnessing is that we’ve really dumbed this down. We’re not arguing for the obvious moves of moving Mike, because they absolutely refuse to do that. We’re looking at the hand we’re dealt and thinking even the small victories would be nice, so we’ve moved to the 14th man and we still can’t make the painfully obvious decision. If we want to move on from this and go to even lesser issues, I can’t imagine how bitchy that would look. So we can either be unrealistic in big moves or we can be bitchy about small moves.

So much this... I mean coach tried to bench Mike and even that was too much for DL to handle.

I love the narrative about eventually DM transitioning to pg too. Yes dumbasses i been there for two damn years but once Mike expires we can finally be free to make the move we should have made a year or two ago and should make now. I could start the 15th “Tarde the Effs outta Mike” thread or settle for bringing in the obvious guy at a bargain price and get rid of the most replaceable guy on the roster. The guy that was first or second in my trim the roster voting threads this summer.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

You guys have some awful analogies lol.

I get it, the FO sucks and made some terrible decisions. But if we can't talk objectively about their moves or process, it's not much different than blindly following and supporting everything they do. I can't follow this logic of the Jazz suffering because their conservative, reactive, not aggressive ect. when they just made one of the worst moves of the past decade and possibly squandered the careers of Gobert + Mitchell. We're in a bad spot because of aggressive, yet awful moves.

I suppose that it is a more pleasant existence to look at everything negative, because you're either pleasantly surprised or you were right and you can try to brag about it online. But this is how you can turn into a maniac going over NWG vs some other player that no team wants

I’m not negative about everything they do I’m objective. I don’t think there is something we don’t know about Shaq... I think it’s that GMs don’t buy the sample size. It’s almost exactly the same thing as Caruso last year.


The Conley move is the prime example of being reactive and conservative... then running out of rope and overpaying. If they had pivoted earlier or been innovative enough to understand DM is likely going to be best if slotted as a pg then they avoid the big mistake.

I give the front office praise when they do good stuff and I bitch about the dumb stuff they do... big or small I pay attention to it all. It could be petty or it could be the thing that makes/breaks us. To be good in a small market you really need to win around the edges and I feel like we’ve struggled with some of these things consistently.

 

[infection]

You guys have some awful analogies lol.

I get it, the FO sucks and made some terrible decisions. But if we can't talk objectively about their moves or process, it's not much different than blindly following and supporting everything they do. I can't follow this logic of the Jazz suffering because their conservative, reactive, not aggressive ect. when they just made one of the worst moves of the past decade and possibly squandered the careers of Gobert + Mitchell. We're in a bad spot because of aggressive, yet awful moves.

I suppose that it is a more pleasant existence to look at everything negative, because you're either pleasantly surprised or you were right and you can try to brag about it online. But this is how you can turn into a maniac going over NWG vs some other player that no team wants

If you took a look at HH’s or my posting history over a number of years, you’d be hard pressed to make an argument that we’re just FO haters or that we just criticize every move. It’s not about conservative vs. aggressive. It’s about mistiming when to do each. This is something we’ve hashed out a lot over time. We’re very conservative — to a fault — and it causes us to be slow in making decisions until things come crashing down. Then we go out and be over aggressive in an over correction. Simply viewing it as aggressive / not aggressive misses the mark. It’s all about the appropriateness of those applications.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

People forget this is not 2K. We may want to bring Shaq but there could many different factors playing into his FA decission. His agent might be asking for the BAE. He could be looking for minutes or a specific system, coaching style. He may want to play in a big market. There could be personality issues we don't know about. On the other hand, yeah, NWG sucks and I'm surprised de couldn't find a better prospect (some talk about Neto but the guy got cut, so he might hold some grudge, who knows). We make too many assumptions about the FO activity/lack of it, but we can only see so far (basically, judge the outcome). Having said that, there has been a few headscratchers decisions and poor asset management this offseason

PS: freaking phone is autocorrecting every single word into another language so forgive the typos

I’ve been a “hey this looks goofy but let’s let it play out” guy for a while. Kinda sick of being right more often than I’m wrong and watching the front office **** up basic stuff... so I’m comfortable saying this is a dumb **** up now and that they are doing the comfortable thing... I’ve seen this movie before... just like I’ve seen the Udoka pick movie before. No need to wait for the end of the movie... I know how it ends.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

If you took a look at HH’s or my posting history over a number of years, you’d be hard pressed to make an argument that we’re just FO haters or that we just criticize every move. It’s not about conservative vs. aggressive. It’s about mistiming when to do each. This is something we’ve hashed out a lot over time. We’re very conservative — to a fault — and it causes us to be slow in making decisions until things come crashing down. Then we go out and be over aggressive in an over correction. Simply viewing it as aggressive / not aggressive misses the mark. It’s all about the appropriateness of those applications.

It’s also frustrating to call your shot at the time and then come back for the I told you so’s and have everyone talk about hindsight. Or get the “lolz like that pick even matters”. I will understand missing on guys if the processes are sound and logical.

 

[infection]

It’s also frustrating to call your shot at the time and then come back for the I told you so’s and have everyone talk about hindsight. Or get the “lolz like that pick even matters”. I will understand missing on guys if the processes are sound and logical.

I have no problem going down swinging at good pitches. But if we hit a triple on a bad pitch we don’t need to pretend it was a good pitch because there was a good outcome. And vice versa. I supported the Conley trade at the time (sans the fact that we traded good guys instead of forcing Exum into the deal) and even long after, but the fact that it became Conley was a corner we painted ourselves in to. I do fault how we’re addressing it now.

Not forcing Exum into the deal is a good example of getting a triple on a bad pitch. People could say “lol we ended up getting Clarkson for Exum,” which is true, but if people like to pull the hindsight card...

I want us to swing at good pitches. I don’t care if we’ve missed a couple times.

I don’t want us swinging at bad pitches. I don’t care that we hit a triple the last time we did it.

 

[KqWIN]

I’m not negative about everything they do I’m objective. I don’t think there is something we don’t know about Shaq... I think it’s that GMs don’t buy the sample size. It’s almost exactly the same thing as Caruso last year.


The Conley move is the prime example of being reactive and conservative... then running out of rope and overpaying. If they had pivoted earlier or been innovative enough to understand DM is likely going to be best if slotted as a pg then they avoid the big mistake.

I give the front office praise when they do good stuff and I bitch about the dumb stuff they do... big or small I pay attention to it all. It could be petty or it could be the thing that makes/breaks us. To be good in a small market you really need to win around the edges and I feel like we’ve struggled with some of these things consistently.

No idea how the Conley move or last off season can be seen as conservative. Massive overhaul of the team when they could have had a 50+ win team locked up for years by simply resigning Rubio and Favors who both wanted to be back. They didn't make conservative moves, they just made bad moves. Roping everything into being conservative isn't logical to me. They made a big bet on Conley, and it was an awful one.

Failing to see Mitchell as a PG isn't conservative or aggressive. That's just stupidity. I would agree that they are slow to find out obvious conclusions. Favors+Gobert as a duo was an obvious one. Took them years to figure that out, and as the cherry on top they bring back Favors to satisfy their next obsession....12 minutes of backing up Gobert.

But again, I don't see that as a function of being conservative or aggressive. If it's a lack of intelligence. The Jazz FO has been plenty aggressive at times, they've just failed miserably at doing so. Whenever I hear fanbases whine about not being aggressive enough, it's almost always 1) people like seeing transactions because they are fun or 2) people whining about anything and everything about the FO.

I mean, you literally skipped over the million times saying I would sign Shaq and came out of it convinced I was a DL fanboy and said I was making bad assumptions that were the opposite of what I said over and over. I even made it a point to emphasize that I was repeating myself, and you still missed it. So forgive me if I think something is clouding your objectivity.

 

[KqWIN]

If you took a look at HH’s or my posting history over a number of years, you’d be hard pressed to make an argument that we’re just FO haters or that we just criticize every move. It’s not about conservative vs. aggressive. It’s about mistiming when to do each. This is something we’ve hashed out a lot over time. We’re very conservative — to a fault — and it causes us to be slow in making decisions until things come crashing down. Then we go out and be over aggressive in an over correction. Simply viewing it as aggressive / not aggressive misses the mark. It’s all about the appropriateness of those applications.

I guess we have very different definitions of what conservative is. If you make several moves that fail miserably, that is not conservative to me. That's just making poor moves. I completely agree, viewing it as conservative/aggressive does miss the mark. Roping anything and everything into being conservative is the most basic, common thing from generic disgruntled fans. Seen it a million times from fans of all teams. Same type of people who are still happy when their team fails, because it at least means that they were right.

I'll believe you if you say you're an objective person, but I don't see objectivity I am going to try to understand what's getting you there. I just can't see how the failure to sign someone no one else has signed exhibits a crippling lack of aggression. I also don't think it's crazy to acknowledge that there's probably something with Shaq's situation that we don't know. Unless his agent posts on JazzFanz...that's undeniably true.