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Clayton or Collier?

Who Will Be Better?

  • Collier

  • Clayton

Results are only viewable after voting.
On the Clayton vs. Collier front. I really like how Clayton plays off ball and how he moves to get open. It creates a nice flow for the offense. Collier is great when it's clicking for him but he constantly goes for homerun passes which leads to loads of turnovers. Just think Clayton is a bit steadier in his approach.
 
bigmike said:
Jimmer proved to have zero PG skills and was just a horrific defensive player. The former doesn't apply to WCJ. We'll see about the latter.
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Well he’s next level terrible in man to man from what I’ve seen! He’s also yet to show me that he can run a PnR like Collier can.
 
str8line said:
Hopefully good news but anytime a player goes out with a hamstring we hear optimism then BAM! how many hammy's have wrecked Jazz players over the years by coming back too early? Can't remember specifics but it seems like we've been through quite a few.
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To be fair, Conley's Hamstring was like 53 years old. I think he inherited it from his father.
 
bigmike said:
He'll have to get way better at both. No question.
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And when I said P&R, by default I was including the alley oop play as well (really two different things). These are two areas that require an intuitive sense (a simpatico connection), an area that Jazz oriented, only Stock and Ingles really excelled in before Collier. This level of connection of a facilitator with his teammates is soooo important for creating the right climate for winning basketball at the highest levels imo.
 
Thee Jazz Fan said:
Everyone kept saying Con was a safer pick and that could be but if your Charlotte you need a star. They imo can’t afford to take the safe player which is exactly why the Jazz took Ace. We need stars period!!
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I'm lost man. I said, I don't have enough information to decide who I think will have a better career of Collier vs WCJ. Personally I would like to see WCJ play against real NBA players first.

I don't see how that has anything to do with Kon vs Ace.
 
It’s important to note that Clayton is two years older than Collier.

If Collier’s shot is indeed just broken than it’s probably WCJ by default since that’s basically a requirement for the position.

So, if Collier can learn to shoot it at >/=35% from 3 on respectable volume and 80% from the line, then I choose Collier. If not, Clayton. Teaching a person floor vision and great passing isn’t any easier than teaching someone to shoot at an NBA level, and Collier is bigger, faster, stronger, younger, and can guard up a position and switch another.

On the other hand, if WCJ gets like Steph/Dame range off the dribble then that’s almost a trump card unto itself.

Of course, you could keep both for a few years. At some point this small-ish guard nonsense we’re doing is going to have to get resolved. But we have some time to figure it out while we suck.
 
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NUMBERICA said:
It’s important to note that Clayton is two years older than Collier.

If Collier’s shot is indeed just broken than it’s probably WCJ by default since that’s basically a requirement for the position.

So, if Collier can learn to shoot it at >/=35% from 3 on respectable volume and 80% from the line, then I choose Collier. If not, Clayton. Teaching a person floor vision and great passing isn’t any easier than teaching someone to shoot at an NBA level, and Collier is bigger, faster, stronger, younger, and can guard up a position and switch another.

On the other hand, if WCJ gets like Steph/Dame range off the dribble then that’s almost a Trump card unto itself.

Of course, you could keep both for a few years. At some point this small-ish guard nonsense we’re doing is going to have to get resolved.
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Is it that simple? I don't know if 3 point shooting is the only thing that Collier is missing. He would still have problems as a player even if he had a good 3 point shot and good FT%.
 
I think Clayton's defense has been more solid in the SL than Collier. Seeing Collier just get absolutely burned too much on the perimeter.
 
Basketball Novice said:
Having the physical traits to guard someone and actually being good on defense are 2 different things. I don't know if Collier is good on defense at all.
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Well ya, we don't really know how any of these guys are at actually being good on defense but Collier has the physical traits at least. That was the point being made.
 
The difference between Clayton and Collier offensively goes far beyond just shooting. He’s just a more gifted and nuanced offensive player.

Collier gets to the rim at will and has great passing vision.

Clayton can still do that, and also manufacture his own quality shot pretty much whenever we would need him to, playing on or off the ball. And, at least in college, make them at a very high percentage.
 
NUMBERICA said:
It’s important to note that Clayton is two years older than Collier.

If Collier’s shot is indeed just broken than it’s probably WCJ by default since that’s basically a requirement for the position.

So, if Collier can learn to shoot it at >/=35% from 3 on respectable volume and 80% from the line, then I choose Collier. If not, Clayton. Teaching a person floor vision and great passing isn’t any easier than teaching someone to shoot at an NBA level, and Collier is bigger, faster, stronger, younger, and can guard up a position and switch another.

On the other hand, if WCJ gets like Steph/Dame range off the dribble then that’s almost a trump card unto itself.

Of course, you could keep both for a few years. At some point this small-ish guard nonsense we’re doing is going to have to get resolved. But we have some time to figure it out while we suck.
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Best post on the topic.
Well done
 
Basketball Novice said:
Is it that simple? I don't know if 3 point shooting is the only thing that Collier is missing. He would still have problems as a player even if he had a good 3 point shot and good FT%.
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Ya it's that simple.
If Collier could shoot like Clayton jr then this thread simply doesn't exist and we don't even consider drafting Clayton in this past draft. We would be set
 
bigmike said:
The difference between Clayton and Collier offensively goes far beyond just shooting. He’s just a more gifted and nuanced offensive player.

Collier gets to the rim at will and has great passing vision.

Clayton can still do that, and also manufacture his own quality shot pretty much whenever we would need him to, playing on or off the ball. And, at least in college, make them at a very high percentage.
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Not to mention Collier is going to have a ton of erratic passes/mistakes that Clayton will have less of.
 
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