What's new
By:

Clayton or Collier?

Who Will Be Better?

  • Collier

  • Clayton

Results are only viewable after voting.
sip said:
You basically just described Ricky Rubio and we all know how that went. When teams locked down he became a massive liability because teams would sag off him and the rest of the offense would become a grind.
Click to expand...
Ya we aren't trying to win this season imo. We are trying to develop young players though. My post was about how having a guy who like to pass and is good at passing might help the other players on our team with development.

Also, you 100% definitely didn't read the last couple of sentences of my post:

"If you want me to argue with you that his lack of shooting doesn't/won't hurt the offense then sorry bro, I won't do it. I absolutely do think his lack of shooting is a really big deal and why I don't think he will ever amount to anything in the NBA."

FWIW I voted Clayton in the poll
 
Last edited:
sip said:
You basically just described Ricky Rubio and we all know how that went. When teams locked down he became a massive liability because teams would sag off him and the rest of the offense would become a grind.
Click to expand...
I disagree. Rubio had his own warts but he was a 34% 3PT and 80% FT shooter in his rookie year. And he was a much better passer as well (>8 APG on a team with many capable passers).
 
jazznik said:
I disagree. Rubio had his own warts but he was a 34% 3PT and 80% FT shooter in his rookie year. And he was a much better passer as well (>8 APG on a team with many capable passers).
Click to expand...
I think it was a big mistake when Jazz got rid of Rubio
Jazz were better with him and team had very good chemistry despite his shooting
He was a very good shooter at times
 
Collier was the main handler in the second half of last season. Key was pushed out by Collier and played as a shooting guard and bench ace. I hope WCJ becomes a good player, but I can't imagine Collier not being in the starting lineup next season. WCJ could be the starting shooting guard, but Collier is the main handler. It could change over time, but I think I'm right at the start of the season.
 
What if I told you that the dude picked at the *** end of probably the worst draft in a decade was never intended to be a second year starter and any juice we get out of him in that direction is an immense positive?

Collier is a project, and a project that broke John Stockton's rookie assist numbers. He didn't fix all of his shooting woes over his first offseason. He will still be a project next year too.

Niether him or Clayton Jr. will be the starting pg in 2026-2027.
 
framer said:
What if I told you that the dude picked at the *** end of probably the worst draft in a decade was never intended to be a second year starter and any juice we get out of him in that direction is an immense positive?

Collier is a project, and a project that broke John Stockton's rookie assist numbers. He didn't fix all of his shooting woes over his first offseason. He will still be a project next year too.

Niether him or Clayton Jr. will be the starting pg in 2026-2027.
Click to expand...
Agreed.
 
framer said:
What if I told you that the dude picked at the *** end of probably the worst draft in a decade was never intended to be a second year starter and any juice we get out of him in that direction is an immense positive?

Collier is a project, and a project that broke John Stockton's rookie assist numbers. He didn't fix all of his shooting woes over his first offseason. He will still be a project next year too.

Niether him or Clayton Jr. will be the starting pg in 2026-2027.
Click to expand...

Agree on Collier. Not sure on Walt. But if WCJ comes off the bench in ~2026-2028 that's exciting since it means we probably have a PG who can really go.
 
bigmike said:
Agree on Collier. Not sure on Walt. But if WCJ comes off the bench in ~2026-2028 that's exciting since it means we probably have a PG who can really go.
Click to expand...
If we spend that 26 million exception it almost has to be for a point guard. Having WCJ as a backup point and Collier as a project is a pretty good situation to grow into. If either if them pop, you can adjust accordingly.
 
framer said:
If we spend that 26 million exception it almost has to be for a point guard. Having WCJ as a backup point and Collier as a project is a pretty good situation to grow into. If either if them pop, you can adjust accordingly.
Click to expand...

If we use the exception it will probably just be to take on a bad contract for a pick or two because apparently we don't already have enough picks in 20's. Sigh
 
fishonjazz said:
I guess I will explain the context of my "SL doesn't matter post" even though I thought it was obvious.
People watch summer league and then make prognostications about playing time/roles/minutes after watching the garbage summer league basketball.
My comment about it not mattering is in that context.
If Collier sucks in summer league and WCJ is amazing but then in fall camp and pre season and actual regular season games Collier is playing amazing and WCJ sucks then hardy won't be like "well I have to give the minutes to WCJ. After all he was way better in summer league"
The only thing that matters about summer league is that the fringe guys get a chance to show teams what they can do and maybe get a contract.
I promise you that Hardy doesn't really care how Collier looked during summer league. I mean I'm sure he would prefer Collier look like Steph in summer league over looking like he can't shoot but it really doesn't matter if he looks like Steph in SL and then can't make a shot in real games. Hardy cares about winning actual NBA games and how players play in actual NBA games. That's my opinion anyway (only person who really knows what hardy thinks about summer league is hardy.)

I mean I guess you could say that rec league games matter and local gym games matter and church league games matter. Cause they do to those players and any basketball being played is reps and practice for those players but SL isn't going to determine playing time or roles for the real squad in the real games in any way at all.
Click to expand...
Virtually ever podcast I listened to the discussed summer league began with the caveat something like, " We can all agree that summer league doesn't really matter and you can't draw any conclusions from it," right before they talked about how much summer league mattered and what conclusions they drew from it. I guess they all need something to talk about.

You point is spot on, what happened in SL is irrelevant to what eventually transpires down the road. Whoever is outplaying the other in real game situations will get the playing time and, potentially, starting PG role. Summer league performance won't matter a whit. Several high SL performers will spend the ensuing years either at the end of the bench, spot rotation players, on 2-ways, journeymen, or out of the league. For example, Kris Dunn was apparently nicknamed “The Next D-Wade” after his standout Summer League play, which he parlayed into an NBA journeyman career for six NBA teams (so far).
 
framer said:
If we spend that 26 million exception it almost has to be for a point guard. Having WCJ as a backup point and Collier as a project is a pretty good situation to grow into. If either if them pop, you can adjust accordingly.
Click to expand...

That or it's to take on a really crappy contract in exchange for more draft capital.
 
Ultimately, if you place more emphasis on what Collier did in summer league as opposed to his work during an NBA season, that is foolish. Sadly, it probably rolls the opposite direction for Cody, although I want to believe. . .
 
framer said:
Yeah, I think we are out of the tanking business after this year. We are going to pick up some players next year.
Click to expand...
The timing of getting the trade exception is quite interesting as the Jazz could use the trade exception through the first week of next years free agency. In other words, they might actually pick up a player once they’ve decided they’ve had enough of being bad on purpose.
 
NUMBERICA said:
The timing of getting the trade exception is quite interesting as the Jazz could use the trade exception through the first week of next years free agency. In other words, they might actually pick up a player once they’ve decided they’ve had enough of being bad on purpose.
Click to expand...
Especially since we don't need a max type guy at the point. A 26 million a year guy will do just fine and we could just give you that much in capspace back. I have come around on the beauty of that trade exception.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page
Back
Top