Clippers be cheating

[SoberasHotRod]

They were a sponsor of the Clippers, IIRC they were actually the jersey sponsor for the Clippers. So if Kawhi is on the Clippers (and thus the team is better w/more attention), the value the scam tree company gets from their sponsorship is greater.

Kawhi being on the Lakers is worth $27Million extra to the sponsors?

If the sponsors were really fraudulent, wouldn't they want to make as much money as possible? Not give it away?

I know this is the super fishy part, but I just don't know how Ballmer/Clippers can get away with this explanation, unless I'm missing something.

 

[KqWIN]

Kawhi being on the Lakers is worth $27Million extra to the sponsors?

If the sponsors were really fraudulent, wouldn't they want to make as much money as possible? Not give it away?

I know this is the super fishy part, but I just don't know how Ballmer/Clippers can get away with this explanation, unless I'm missing something.

Clippers....but yeah that's the argument. For Cuban's argument to hold true, scam tree company would have to determine that their sponsorship is worth>$48M (that's the new figure) greater with Kawhi on the Clips so they give Kawhi $48M to do nothing besides play for the Clippers. And maybe that is plausible, Kawhi brings in a lot of value I'm sure. But to say that Ballmer has no involvement or knowledge of this, despite giving scam tree company $50M and the whistleblowers (7 employees who outed the scam company as a scam) indicating that they knew Ballmer was involved, is the part that seems highly implausible.

And if there is no wrongdoing here....what are the implications? Any team can receive money from an NBA owner and create a contract with players that requires them to play for certain team?

 

[David Hume]

I watched the Cuban-Torre follow up. Both agree that Leonard was paid by scam tree company to play for the Clippers. The disagreement comes from whether or not Ballmer and the Clippers knew about it and the extent of their involvement. Cuban says scam tree company circumvented the cap on their own to increase the value of their sponsorship and Ballmer had no idea about this despite investing in the company. Cuban's argument is basically, "Ballmer isn't that dumb, if he were to do it he wouldn't do it this way". Torre says of course he freaking knows about it and through his investigative reporting says that the (innocent) employees knew the were involved in some kind of scheme with the Clippers.

The irony of this situation is that Ballmer has already been fined for doing something similar with Deandre Jordan, where Cuban and the Mavs were the victims lol.

Seems kind of insane that any shell company can pay any player X amount of money and nothing happens if the team says "we didn't know about it". Even more insane if that shell company is a direct partner of said team and the team owner is giving that company money. So if LVT pays a player $50M to play for the Jazz and Ryan Smith gives them $50M, it's ok as long as Ryan Smith pleads ignorance and says he doesn't know what's going on?

Astute analysis, my esteemed colleague.

 

[KqWIN]

Cuban's defense is also Ballmer's defense. So best case scenario for Ballmer: he gave a company $50M, they gave that money to Kawhi without his knowledge, and the reason they give Kawhi money is because they are also invested in the success of the team because they are sponsors. He is the victim in this whole situation by the way. That $50M went to a company that just happened to give Kawhi $50M to play for his team. Really unfortunate return on investment for him.

IDK about you guys, but it seems completely fked up that you can just say "I didn't know about it" and go on like usual.

"These were guys who committed fraud. Look, they conned me. They conned me. I made an investment in these guys thinking it was on the up-and-up, and they conned me at this stage. I have no ability to predict why they might have done anything they did, let alone the specific contract with Kawhi."Steve Ballmer on since-bankrupt Aspiration

Ballmer: Clips 'always done right thing' with Kawhi

Clippers owner Steve Ballmer told ESPN that he would "want the league to investigate" if another owner and another team were accused of circumventing the NBA's salary cap, as the Clippers were in a podcast by Pablo Torre on Wednesday.

www.espn.com.au

 

[TheGoldStandard]

Cuban's defense is also Ballmer's defense. So best case scenario for Ballmer: he gave a company $50M, they gave that money to Kawhi without his knowledge, and the reason they give Kawhi money is because they are also invested in the success of the team because they are sponsors. He is the victim in this whole situation by the way. That $50M went to a company that just happened to give Kawhi $50M to play for his team. Really unfortunate return on investment for him.

IDK about you guys, but it seems completely fked up that you can just say "I didn't know about it" and go on like usual.

Ballmer: Clips 'always done right thing' with Kawhi

Clippers owner Steve Ballmer told ESPN that he would "want the league to investigate" if another owner and another team were accused of circumventing the NBA's salary cap, as the Clippers were in a podcast by Pablo Torre on Wednesday.

www.espn.com.au

Especially when there are a number of employees that evidently reported that they money for Kawhi was to get around the salary cap limitations. I can't see any situation where a company would give Kawhi that much money to be with the Clippers except the Clippers.

Sure the CEO committed fraud, and Ballmer is trying to change to the focus to that, but they started as a legitimate company, and him trying to move the focus is very telling to me.

 

[KqWIN]

Especially when there are a number of employees that evidently reported that they money for Kawhi was to get around the salary cap limitations. I can't see any situation where a company would give Kawhi that much money to be with the Clippers except the Clippers.

Sure the CEO committed fraud, and Ballmer is trying to change to the focus to that, but they started as a legitimate company, and him trying to move the focus is very telling to me.

Yeah, IMO it doesn't matter if the company was a fraud company or not. It does seem like Ballmer is trying to deflect attention away and play victim. In reality, the issue is that he gave money to a company (fraud or not) and that company gave money to Kawhi to play for the Clippers. Had the tree company been legitimate it would not change my stance on this at all. You shouldn't be allowed to be invested in a company that can pay a player directly to play for your team.

 

[TheGoldStandard]

Yeah, IMO it doesn't matter if the company was a fraud company or not. It does seem like Ballmer is trying to deflect attention away and play victim. In reality, the issue is that he gave money to a company (fraud or not) and that company gave money to Kawhi to play for the Clippers. Had the tree company been legitimate it would not change my stance on this at all. You shouldn't be allowed to be invested in a company that can pay a player directly to play for your team.

It is one thing to help a player get legitimate sponsorships or even involved in arms'-length business opportunities vs. paying someone that much to do nothing.

If there are related party transactions, there should be safe guards, diligence, compensation studies, etc., to ensure the transaction is legitimate.

 

[The Jazz Wonderbra]

If they let this slide then why would anyone stick to the salary cap? You would have a cap and then a bunch of under the table deals to sweeten the pie. Pay 5 all stars $25 million each BUT give them all $100 million across 4 years in marketing money deals as add one thst are off the books. Then they make $50 million annual either way AND they play with their friends.

If people dont think this is crap... dey crazy

 

[The Jazz Wonderbra]

Just another reason to sour on the NBA. Cooper flagg just about did me in. I am about 70% down on interest since then. If this slides, then the WWE days have officially been ushered in.

 

[KqWIN]

It is one thing to help a player get legitimate sponsorships or even involved in arms'-length business opportunities vs. paying someone that much to do nothing.

If there are related party transactions, there should be safe guards, diligence, compensation studies, etc., to ensure the transaction is legitimate.

My guess is that there will be some kind of slap on the wrist for “negligence” and then they will establish more concrete safe guards. There will be no proof that Ballmer knew where his money was going, and the NBA will sweep this under the rug.

I feel uncomfortable with any endorsement deal that requires a player to play for certain team and I feel uncomfortable with NBA owners being so heavily invested in companies that pay their own players in general. The former should be a hard rule IMO. The latter, it’s trickier for sure. But when $50M can go into a company and ~$50M went to Kawhi from that same company things are way too loose.

This whole thing is baffling because the story that Ballmer is pushing to claim innocence is still wildly fked up.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

My guess is that there will be some kind of slap on the wrist for “negligence” and then they will establish more concrete safe guards. There will be no proof that Ballmer knew where his money was going, and the NBA will sweep this under the rug.

I feel uncomfortable with any endorsement deal that requires a player to play for certain team and I feel uncomfortable with NBA owners being so heavily invested in companies that pay their own players in general. The former should be a hard rule IMO. The latter, it’s trickier for sure. But when $50M can go into a company and ~$50M went to Kawhi from that same company things are way too loose.

This whole thing is baffling because the story that Ballmer is pushing to claim innocence is still wildly fked up.

KqWIN is covering how I feel about this basically.

To me Ballmer saying he introduced them and its up to them what happens from there is akin to someone who runs a brothel saying "I matchmake horny guys and hot women and give them a room... what happens there is up to them".

Scam tree companies incentive here... Ballmer gives $50M it helps their scam stay afloat... the parce out 7M a year for Kawhi... the 20m in value was stock that is now worthless... so they get some cash to keep **** afloat.

If Ballmer didn't put it in writing anywhere that he directed this and if there is no pissed off third party that is willing to provide info (they likely have destroyed any real evidence by now) then it will be the hand slap. Not sure anyone on the Aspiration side has documents to disclose... but they wouldn't have to provide them to the NBA anyway.

Playing dumb is an elite strategy for these guys. Cuban did it with his sexual harassment stuff that the Mavs had and it was absolutely laughable.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

If say 20 owners are legitimately pissed and are demanding their pound of flesh... they might get a thorough enough investigation and actually go pretty hard here.

The other thing that could happen is the Clips did something else shady with like Harden and they didn't clean that up... and then they get tagged for that and it shows a pattern. IDK I just have a hard time thinking any real evidence hasn't been destroyed, any employees that might have info likely won't come forward, and the NBA investigation team isn't going to go all that hard. There may be someone that comes forward to protect their career and keeps info... and they may provide the smoking gun... but I think this gets brushed off and rule changes come later.

 

[KqWIN]

KqWIN is covering how I feel about this basically.

To me Ballmer saying he introduced them and its up to them what happens from there is akin to someone who runs a brothel saying "I matchmake horny guys and hot women and give them a room... what happens there is up to them".

Scam tree companies incentive here... Ballmer gives $50M it helps their scam stay afloat... the parce out 7M a year for Kawhi... the 20m in value was stock that is now worthless... so they get some cash to keep **** afloat.

If Ballmer didn't put it in writing anywhere that he directed this and if there is no pissed off third party that is willing to provide info (they likely have destroyed any real evidence by now) then it will be the hand slap. Not sure anyone on the Aspiration side has documents to disclose... but they wouldn't have to provide them to the NBA anyway.

Playing dumb is an elite strategy for these guys. Cuban did it with his sexual harassment stuff that the Mavs had and it was absolutely laughable.

If the NBA lets this slide, they are basically legalizing circumventing the cap. Any owner can pay any sponsor to pay their athlete a contract that exists if and only if they player for that owner's team. The only thing you can't do is have it on a piece of a paper. Ryan Smith if you're out there, you can funnel $50M through my LLC and I'll give $48M of it to any FA you want!

Ballmer will get away with it and they'll establish some kind of "Ballmer Rule" that supposedly closes up this loophole and fine him pennies.

 

[underdog]

Cuban's defense is also Ballmer's defense. So best case scenario for Ballmer: he gave a company $50M, they gave that money to Kawhi without his knowledge, and the reason they give Kawhi money is because they are also invested in the success of the team because they are sponsors. He is the victim in this whole situation by the way. That $50M went to a company that just happened to give Kawhi $50M to play for his team. Really unfortunate return on investment for him.

IDK about you guys, but it seems completely fked up that you can just say "I didn't know about it" and go on like usual.

Ballmer: Clips 'always done right thing' with Kawhi

Clippers owner Steve Ballmer told ESPN that he would "want the league to investigate" if another owner and another team were accused of circumventing the NBA's salary cap, as the Clippers were in a podcast by Pablo Torre on Wednesday.

www.espn.com.au

Yeah, in that interview, Ballmer said pretty much everything I thought he would say, but when he was asked why Aspiration would pay Kawhi 28 million to do nothing, that’s where he started to stumble. That Cuban's defense is incredibly weak imo.

 

[gomretat]

If the NBA lets this slide, they are basically legalizing circumventing the cap. Any owner can pay any sponsor to pay their athlete a contract that exists if and only if they player for that owner's team. The only thing you can't do is have it on a piece of a paper. Ryan Smith if you're out there, you can funnel $50M through my LLC and I'll give $48M of it to any FA you want!

Ballmer will get away with it and they'll establish some kind of "Ballmer Rule" that supposedly closes up this loophole and fine him pennies.

The credibility hit in letting this slide is huge, both with the fans and other owners. Still might happen but the reverberations of this don't go away by brushing it under the rug.

 

[infection]

Look, there are a lot of things I want to say but this thread is moving faster than I would ever have the time to respond. So with that said, I’d just like to point out that if you’re a number of pages into a thread and @Handlogten's Heros and @KqWIN are going back and forth and more or less agreeing, then yeah, that’s probably the way it is.

 

[infection]

My tl;dr that’s maybe not the most appropriate but I mean it legitimately, is like when people feel they’re in too deep to investigate something with devastating consequences. How many stories have you heard where someone had been sexually abused by a sibling or family member and the parents never did anything about it or pretended it never happened? The league is currently confronted with a situation it doesn’t like. I guarantee you they don’t like what happened and they aren’t “pulling” for Balmer and the Clippers. But they know that going down the pathway of addressing this is a path steeped in difficulty, difficulty that they’re not ready to face. All of us knows what they should do. Hell, even they know what they should do. But the reality of what they will do, or rather, will not do is a totally separate issue.

At the end of the day, they’ll delay and drag out the “investigation” to let the boil cool closer to room temperature. From there, they’ll delay and then reassess, when they’ll have a pretty good cap on things as they can convey a tone through the media that everything is orderly and in control, and that any justice will be served, if needed. When it finalizes, there will be much less interest in it than there is now (which is already quite limited relative to how big a story it really is).

Humans like comfort and reason. Just like the parents not wanting to believe something horrible. When the league comes out with its conclusion and whatever fine or punishment, the calm tone will have already dominated for long enough that most people will assume it was more of a nothing burger than the original “gut feeling” led people to believe. Of any of the people currently doubting that, a critical mass of them will be calmed by then to appeal to what superficially appears “rational” and will accept that, even if there were some mistakes and oversights, that the league did the best they could, within reason, and that even if it were shady, we were probably irrational to let our emotions jump to irrational conclusions because they totally would’ve brought the hammer down if this were what we thought it was. And because they didn’t, we’ll assume it wasn’t.

 

[HermanG]

Important background info:
Apparently during his free agency before joining Clippers Kawhi and his uncle had made "improver requests" to several teams in contract negotiations.

These requests included team ownership stakes, off court endorsement deals, private planes etc all of which went against CBA rules. Clippers were investigates after they got Kawhi to sign with thrm but were cleared back then.

Imo there is literally no chance this wasnt agreed before Kawhi signed the 4 year max deal in 2021. Clippers/Ballmer affiliation with Aspiration was at its strongest then and Kawhi endorsement deal was signed just 3 months after he signed his contract.