What's new
By:

Collin Sexton SZN

whatthe said:
Conley has rubbed off on too many of our players. Sexton threw some really good lobs. I am not sure we lose as much as we are expecting. Sexton, THT played well and so did Gay. Olynyk moved the ball. That could be enough to continue at the same level of play for a while. The defense is a little weaker but surprisingly Kessler is playing stronger in that area. They all have too much confidence and they could end up in the playoffs. Super shocking...
Click to expand...
If Gay would just not shoot threes, I’d think he was a highly effective player
 
Jingled said:
I have a hard time seeing us using a ton of our cap space on FVV. We keep hearing how the Jazz are going for positional size at every position...doesn't make a lot of sense to spend $30 million or more a season on a 6'1 point guard, especially when we already have one of those on the roster. He also turns 29 this year, so he may not fit the timeline.
Click to expand...
Yeah this aint happening
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
FVV just has almost no chance to outplay his next deal. He's a guy you sign if your "window" is the next two years as he likely ages poorly. I'd rather overpay for a Grant Williams (or Cam Johnson or Gary Trent) that you know will at least be good in 3-4 years. If you end up having to use space to take a ****** contract and get compensated that way I would rather go that route too.

I also think we could get some playmaking/passing by signing a guy like Austin Reeves to play the 2 or Josh Hart as a forward. I think you can find a way to add more ball movers and let Sexton cook a little bit more (like they do with JC) and it might be a better temporary solution until a younger player develops or a trade materializes... like if Dejounte Murray became available.
Click to expand...

Eh...I don't know about no chance. I think if he plays at the level he's been at he's probably going to be worth it. And it get backs to what I was saying. If you're overpaying someone by $5M a year...is that so much that you don't give him the deal? Have to be honest and think about other options....maybe that option is to overpay a different guy. I just don't think it's enough to say, "this guy will be overpaid and that's why we shouldn't sign him". It's not quite that simple. Most of the options for using our cap space involve overpaying for someone one way or another.

I tell you what, I think FVV's next contract will be better than Clarkson's next contract. FVV will get paid more, but he is a much better player and you're paying for years 29-31/32 instead of 31-33/4.
 
Jingled said:
I have a hard time seeing us using a ton of our cap space on FVV. We keep hearing how the Jazz are going for positional size at every position...doesn't make a lot of sense to spend $30 million or more a season on a 6'1 point guard, especially when we already have one of those on the roster. He also turns 29 this year, so he may not fit the timeline.
Click to expand...
Agreed in the size part, completely disagree on the timeline part
 
KqWIN said:
Eh...I don't know about no chance. I think if he plays at the level he's been at he's probably going to be worth it. And it get backs to what I was saying. If you're overpaying someone by $5M a year...is that so much that you don't give him the deal? Have to be honest and think about other options....maybe that option is to overpay a different guy. I just don't think it's enough to say, "this guy will be overpaid and that's why we shouldn't sign him". It's not quite that simple. Most of the options for using our cap space involve overpaying for someone one way or another.

I tell you what, I think FVV's next contract will be better than Clarkson's next contract. FVV will get paid more, but he is a much better player and you're paying for years 29-31/32 instead of 31-33/4.
Click to expand...
I get that... I just think there is a chance he is worth $5M more/less than what he signs for the first two years of that deal and then goes full Kemba Walker and is done. He's tiny and they way those guys play puts some hard miles on dudes.

I guess a better way to put it for me is I would rather overpay for a guy now that would project to be in his prime in 2 years versus one that will almost surely be on the downslide and maybe on a steep decline. Age is particularly brutal on small pgs.

With JC I think age is one factor here... I'd be willing to bet age 33/34 JC looks closer to age 30 JC than age 31/32 FVV looks like age 29 FVV. The number is likely 50% of FVV's number and I think you could more easily get him on a 3 year deal. Assume JC gets 3/60 and FVV gets 4/100 and its pretty close.

Again.. I'd rather not pay either of them and pay a guy that is 24-26 today so that I can assume with more certainty that the contract will age well. It would be more important to make sure I don't have a potentially horrible deal on the books 2 years from now than to fill an immediate need.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Looked at a few different actions on nba.com... was surprised to see how high Sexton is scoring in iso and as a pick and roll ball handler. In addition to playing him at the pg we need to have him running more pick and roll actions these last 20 or so games. Get a bigger sample. JC needs to move a bit more off ball to explore what we have here. He was like high 90s and 80-ish percentile on most offensive actions.

It isn't enough just to play the young guys these next 20 games or so... we must let them explore the room.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I want to see what ochai can do besides stand in the corner too.


Sent from my iPad using JazzFanz mobile app
 
Jingled said:
I have a hard time seeing us using a ton of our cap space on FVV. We keep hearing how the Jazz are going for positional size at every position...doesn't make a lot of sense to spend $30 million or more a season on a 6'1 point guard, especially when we already have one of those on the roster. He also turns 29 this year, so he may not fit the timeline.
Click to expand...

Also, no way is FVV 6’1


Sent from my iPad using JazzFanz mobile app
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I get that... I just think there is a chance he is worth $5M more/less than what he signs for the first two years of that deal and then goes full Kemba Walker and is done. He's tiny and they way those guys play puts some hard miles on dudes.

I guess a better way to put it for me is I would rather overpay for a guy now that would project to be in his prime in 2 years versus one that will almost surely be on the downslide and maybe on a steep decline. Age is particularly brutal on small pgs.

With JC I think age is one factor here... I'd be willing to bet age 33/34 JC looks closer to age 30 JC than age 31/32 FVV looks like age 29 FVV. The number is likely 50% of FVV's number and I think you could more easily get him on a 3 year deal. Assume JC gets 3/60 and FVV gets 4/100 and its pretty close.

Again.. I'd rather not pay either of them and pay a guy that is 24-26 today so that I can assume with more certainty that the contract will age well. It would be more important to make sure I don't have a potentially horrible deal on the books 2 years from now than to fill an immediate need.
Click to expand...

I think the concerns are fair, especially because he has an extensive injury history, but I think people are harping on the size thing too much. It kinda reminds me of when everyone was panicked about trading for Marcus Smart or even Josh Hart more recently because they were deemed too short. Height matters, but what matters more is how you play and those guys played way bigger than their size. FVV is short, but he's started at SG for a great defense and been a key defender in many playoff series. He's tough as **** and I would rather have a 6'0 guy who can actually defend than a 6'5 that can't.

It wouldn't shock me if he fell off because of his injury history, and you can't totally dismiss his height, but he's is definitely made of the same cloth as Lowry, Conley, CP3 etc. He could very well be in the prime of his career, as the other short guys were. He wouldn't be plan A for me....but if there's nothing else better and FVV wants to play here I think you have to sign him.

The cap situation is also something I'm not too worried about. What is the cost of signing FVV? It uses your cap space this year. The following year you likely still have max space or close to it even with Clarkson. The year after you have also have tons of space. We're not exactly in a cap crunch, so I'm all for overpaying any good player we can get in the door.
 
KqWIN said:
I think the concerns are fair, especially because he has an extensive injury history, but I think people are harping on the size thing too much. It kinda reminds me of when everyone was panicked about trading for Marcus Smart or even Josh Hart more recently because they were deemed too short. Height matters, but what matters more is how you play and those guys played way bigger than their size. FVV is short, but he's started at SG for a great defense and been a key defender in many playoff series. He's tough as **** and I would rather have a 6'0 guy who can actually defend than a 6'5 that can't.
Click to expand...

I’m not worried about defense as much as offense… he doesn’t have much margin for error there… if he loses some burst it could turn into Kemba/IT
KqWIN said:
It wouldn't shock me if he fell off because of his injury history, and you can't totally dismiss his height, but he's is definitely made of the same cloth as Lowry, Conley, CP3 etc. He could very well be in the prime of his career, as the other short guys were. He wouldn't be plan A for me....but if there's nothing else better and FVV wants to play here I think you have to sign him.
Click to expand...

He could bounce back and have a good year but those guys are a class or two or three above FVV so they can slip and still be really good. He could age gracefully.
KqWIN said:
The cap situation is also something I'm not too worried about. What is the cost of signing FVV? It uses your cap space this year. The following year you likely still have max space or close to it even with Clarkson. The year after you have also have tons of space. We're not exactly in a cap crunch, so I'm all for overpaying any good player we can get in the door.
Click to expand...
This is how cap issues start… next two years it’s not a big deal… Lauri gets a pay raise midway through that contract… Walker the following year… so it may prevent you from making other better moves. Just because there is t a better use immediately doesn’t mean there isn’t a cost in year 3 or 4. Signing FVV might leave us with max space again but we may not want to use it with Lauri due some money and FVV on the books too.

Our current situation wouldn’t warrant taking a big swing on a guy like FVV… if we could t get something long term I’d just rent the space next year and get draft assets for doing it. It’s an unnecessary risk imo and I’d just wait. I’m also assuming the cost is 4/120M or more.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page
Back
Top