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Conley For Horford Discussion

Is Blake Griffin done?

****, nvm, we all should know that Conley will be back next year.
 
The idea isn't that Horford is our missing piece. The idea is that Horford helps us more than Conley AND we are able to get draft assets who help us long term.

Look at OKC - their waves of young, athletic players wore us down. Our interior was weak. Our depth is weak. The Conley trade deprived us of two valuable draft picks. This Horford deal would only be considered if it gave us a chance to add draft assets.

I'm not sold that we are going to spend a lot of money in summer 2021 anyway. If Gobert and Donovan are making $60 combined, add in Bojan, Ingles, Royce and hopefully Clarkson, and we are already over the cap.
 
LoPo said:
The idea isn't that Horford is our missing piece. The idea is that Horford helps us more than Conley AND we are able to get draft assets who help us long term.

Look at OKC - their waves of young, athletic players wore us down. Our interior was weak. Our depth is weak. The Conley trade deprived us of two valuable draft picks. This Horford deal would only be considered if it gave us a chance to add draft assets.

I'm not sold that we are going to spend a lot of money in summer 2021 anyway. If Gobert and Donovan are making $60 combined, add in Bojan, Ingles, Royce and hopefully Clarkson, and we are already over the cap.
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The Jazz really only need to add one athletic wing with some length to fill the hole in their frontcourt. They can get that type of player in the draft this year. Then they can use their MLE to bring in another athletic backup big to replace Ed Davis. Jeff Green was a mistake, but he's gone. Ed Davis can be benched or dumped if need be.

There are much better deals out there than the OP.
 
Catchall said:
The Jazz really only need to add one athletic wing with some length to fill the hole in their frontcourt. They can get that type of player in the draft this year. Then they can use their MLE to bring in another athletic backup big to replace Ed Davis. Jeff Green was a mistake, but he's gone. Ed Davis can be benched or dumped if need be.

There are much better deals out there than the OP.
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I hope so. Last draft, we could have gotten Clarke which is exactly what we lack.

I don't see another trade where we actually get value for Conley. There just aren't that many big bad contracts. We have to get creative like this where we eat a contract but get enough extras in return.

As of right now, I don't buy that we will have money to spend when Conley expires in 2021 due to incoming Donovan and Rudy deals. So if we keep Conley, the next two offseasons combined, we get to add 1 MLE (20 or 21), 1 1st rounder (20) and minimum contract type guys. That's thinner than my hair.
 
Jazz FO is way better than us dumb forum fans. But we sure have been on the 'Jazz lack athleticism' wagon for awhile. And the people in power have done nothing to address it. Jerami Grant was right there... All of these take them and pray picks. Why not at least do that with tall athletic dudes? I'd rather be overflowing with those than NWG, Grayson Allen types.

It is simply a very flawed roster in today's league, with not much flexibility.
 
LoPo said:
I hope so. Last draft, we could have gotten Clarke which is exactly what we lack.

I don't see another trade where we actually get value for Conley. There just aren't that many big bad contracts. We have to get creative like this where we eat a contract but get enough extras in return.

As of right now, I don't buy that we will have money to spend when Conley expires in 2021 due to incoming Donovan and Rudy deals. So if we keep Conley, the next two offseasons combined, we get to add 1 MLE (20 or 21), 1 1st rounder (20) and minimum contract type guys. That's thinner than my hair.
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Drafting Paul Reed this year would more or less make up for missing out on Brandon Clarke last year. If we can somehow get Pokusevski in the draft, we'd be even better off. I also have some hope for Brantley being a rotation player. His size and length alone creates some disruption on defense, and he does enough on offense to fit into Quin's system.

If Donovan were willing to delay his max extension until next off-season, we might be able to eek out some cap space for free agency and then sign Donovan. That's what Miami is doing with Bam Adebayo. Not sure Donovan would do it though.
 
Also, the Jazz could possibly trade Conley for Otto Porter and call it even, given Porter's injuries the last two seasons.
 
Catchall said:
Also, the Jazz could possibly trade Conley for Otto Porter and call it even, given Porter's injuries the last two seasons.
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But why would Chicago even consider that? Conley makes $6 million more, is older, and has less upside. Porter is a deal where we have to get rid of assets to make it happen.

I think we could use Horford to get one or two first rounders in the 2020 draft. If we only got one, we could also pick up one or two quality 2nd rounders. Philly has Atlanta's and NY's. We could get 3 picks in the top 35. If we packaged a few of those picks to get into the late lottery, maybe we get a true difference maker.

For me, Horford plus a good draft pick is better than Conley and then limited cap space in summer 2021.
 
LoPo said:
But why would Chicago even consider that? Conley makes $6 million more, is older, and has less upside. Porter is a deal where we have to get rid of assets to make it happen.

I think we could use Horford to get one or two first rounders in the 2020 draft. If we only got one, we could also pick up one or two quality 2nd rounders. Philly has Atlanta's and NY's. We could get 3 picks in the top 35. If we packaged a few of those picks to get into the late lottery, maybe we get a true difference maker.

For me, Horford plus a good draft pick is better than Conley and then limited cap space in summer 2021.
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I would say Horford sucks. He's too old. Get over it.
 
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Bawse Dawg said:
Jazz FO is way better than us dumb forum fans. But we sure have been on the 'Jazz lack athleticism' wagon for awhile. And the people in power have done nothing to address it. Jerami Grant was right there... All of these take them and pray picks. Why not at least do that with tall athletic dudes? I'd rather be overflowing with those than NWG, Grayson Allen types.

It is simply a very flawed roster in today's league, with not much flexibility.
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I don't think last year's team lacked athleticism, it lacked shooting. We got rid of our athletic non-shooters and our defense dropped off a cliff. I think the FO just made too big of a pivot in one offseason and we're paying the price for it now. The biggest issue is that the athletic guys we acquired sucked and so we have no depth
 
I would like to take a moment to share my opinion on the matter at hand.






No.




Thank you for the opportunity to participate in this serious and profound discussion.
 
Catchall said:
I would say Horford sucks. He's too old. Get over it.
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Uh, what? He is one of the best big man defenders in the league. He's a great all purpose player who is a bad fit where he currently is. Embiid dominates the post while Simmons can't shoot a lick.

Is he old? Yes. Is he overpaid? Yes. Does he suck? No. We need more quality players, and he's a quality player.
 
NAOS said:
Richardson is realllllly interesting to me. If healthy, he could go a long way in helping to fix our woeful perimeter defense.
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I think he'd be helpful and would look good in our system. I just think we look to more cost effective means for all of our issues... and honestly its justified. If we felt we really needed 1st round picks then maybe you can justify this kind of investment... but even then it feels like there are cheaper ways to get there.

If we move Conley I really think it is to reduce salary and open up some cap flexibility to sign other guys. Maybe we land a lower cost player that is also expiring... Conley to the Knicks in that type of scenario would be the most likely "target". Unless we signed someone that was pretty decent I'm not sure we'd be better than if we just brought Mike off the bench. I think he has a lot more value when he isn't sharing the floor with Ingles, DM, and Bojan... I want Ingles and Royce in the starting lineup next year... Mike and JC can wreck fools off the bench.
 
LoPo said:
Uh, what? He is one of the best big man defenders in the league. He's a great all purpose player who is a bad fit where he currently is. Embiid dominates the post while Simmons can't shoot a lick.

Is he old? Yes. Is he overpaid? Yes. Does he suck? No. We need more quality players, and he's a quality player.
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He's too slow to play out on the floor and guard wings. He's a bit small for a 5 and doesn't rebound well. He was -26 playing against the Indiana Pacers' bench a couple days ago. Philly isn't going to be able to move him.
 
Catchall said:
He's too slow to play out on the floor and guard wings. He's a bit small for a 5 and doesn't rebound well. He was -26 playing against the Indiana Pacers' bench a couple days ago. Philly isn't going to be able to move him.
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Which is why they give up assets to move him. Richardson, Zhaire Smith, draft picks, etc. These are all things we need in addition to a quality backup big.

I don't think there is a market for trading Conley where we dump his salary. The Knicks are the most likely, but why do they do that? Unless new coach Thibs has a secret crush on Conley, why does he set the tone in NY by adding $35 million expiring Conley? There might be a couple scenarios where we trade him for equal salary or a little savings, but I'm not sure we will get value in return (guys like Batum).
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I think he'd be helpful and would look good in our system. I just think we look to more cost effective means for all of our issues... and honestly its justified. If we felt we really needed 1st round picks then maybe you can justify this kind of investment... but even then it feels like there are cheaper ways to get there.

If we move Conley I really think it is to reduce salary and open up some cap flexibility to sign other guys. Maybe we land a lower cost player that is also expiring... Conley to the Knicks in that type of scenario would be the most likely "target". Unless we signed someone that was pretty decent I'm not sure we'd be better than if we just brought Mike off the bench. I think he has a lot more value when he isn't sharing the floor with Ingles, DM, and Bojan... I want Ingles and Royce in the starting lineup next year... Mike and JC can wreck fools off the bench.
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Jazz are not a championship caliber team with Joe and Royce starting. Having them come off the bench would immediate strengthen our bench and the Jazz would be contenders if they could fill their positions with better players. Yea I know that is easy to but harder to accomplish. Joe is getting slower and older. He is inconsistent and defers to our scorers too much. If either Joe or Royce are have a hot game then keep playing them. Having those two along with Clarkson would make for a tough second unit. I like Richardson too but not enough to take on Horford's contract. Even the thought of adding Richardson and picks a 1st and NY second round pick isn't enough for me to take Horford's contract.

I say NO to this deal but I also see that you are on the right direction with Jazz needing to get better, younger, and more athletic. The fact that the Jazz lack draft picks right now is why I get upset when they always include them in trades when most teams don't. We give out 1st round picks like they are candy sometimes. Jazz need to really hit at least a triple in this draft and fill a role either at Power Forward or SF. Then they need to keep Clarkson and add an above average player in FA. I will let the experts decide how to do this? lol.
 
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