Conley For Horford Discussion

[Handlogten's Heros]

Zero mention of Mike’s defense, or how playing him puts the rest of our average defenders in worse matchups.

Or that joe seems to disappear in lineups with Mike or that we were better with Joe in the starting lineup than we were with Mike. Or that when you look at the contenders next year you really wonder how Mike would survive defensively.

Also for those in the camp of keeping Mike... when we get to the offseason next year what’s the plan? Pay to keep him and you have a money crunch once you give the MLE to some big this year and retain JC. Letting him walk for nothing will get you what?

 

[latin jazz]

One guy is in a great situation to succeed... the other guy has the deck completely stacked against him. Al may have looked creaky in the bubble... there were plenty of times this year when Mike looked creaky.

The Philly situation is pretty dire... If they fill out their roster with minimums they will be 12M over the tax... meaning a $22M plus tax bill. That is using the most optimistic cap projection. If the cap is flat they will be $22M over the cap meaning a $50M+ tax bill. The GMs there stand pat and they don't improve that will be tough to explain to the ownership group. They may not do a deal... that's fine, but don't downplay the fact that they would have many reasons to do one.

This is fair. Although it seems Quin system is a nightmare for PGs (except dumb George Hill, who fit like a glove)

With Doc at the helm, they probably keep the Vets and try to move expendable guys like Mike Scott first. That would only take a 2nd rounder (or two).

Perhaps Philly is willing to pay a big tax bill this year (bringing Doc point into that direction). Time will tell how desperate they are.

 

[latin jazz]

Zero mention of Mike’s defense, or how playing him puts the rest of our average defenders in worse matchups.

It's been mentioned ad nauseam ha. I even said something about it yesterday (or today?) and you even liked the comment: that having two below average starting in Bogie/Conley (+DM) sucks and ruins our defense.

HH didn't bring defense into the argument and I was taking the time to address his points one by one. So blame HH for not doing it, not me

 

[NAOS]

It's been mentioned ad nauseam ha. I even said something about it yesterday (or today?) and you even liked the comment: that having two below average starting in Bogie/Conley (+DM) sucks and ruins our defense.

HH didn't bring defense into the argument and I was taking the time to address his points one by one. So blame HH for not doing it, not me

I have to parachute into these conversations at random these days. Whenever I do, I see considerably more typing about Mike’s offense than his defense, which I think is pretty odd—and also quite a giveaway considering his offense (taken in whole) is nothing to crow about.

But it’s his defense that lowers our ceiling for as long as he’s here. And if we play things out with him on the roster, we’ll have very little room to maneuver. We’re in a corner. And the smoking gun for all the woe is his defense.

I feel almost a moral duty to keep this perspective frothing right at the top of JFC. Sorry I quoted you this time, haha.

 

[latin jazz]

Status quo is the path to mediocrity and will sow the seeds of either wasting DM's prime or him asking out.

To be fair to management, they were pretty aggressive last year. Maybe overreacted to the Rocket's spanking and went full dribble penetration/shooting to replace defense/length. Now the Lakers have risen while the Rockets experiment exploded.

By DL comments some weeks ago, it seems we are looking into regaining defense/length again.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

This is fair. Although it seems Quin system is a nightmare for PGs (except dumb George Hill, who fit like a glove)

With Doc at the helm, they probably keep the Vets and try to move expendable guys like Mike Scott first. That would only take a 2nd rounder (or two).

Perhaps Philly is willing to pay a big tax bill this year (bringing Doc point into that direction). Time will tell how desperate they are.

We just don’t need a true pg. mike was also far worse at creating for others than I thought he’d be.

I think for Mike to be his best version he needs to be a primary ball handler. He still gives off ball value of course. I feel like Joe is best cast in that secondary role. When JC is in there is no secondary... it’s just all JC which is fine for a chunk of the game.

The fit just isn’t ideal.

 

[latin jazz]

I have to parachute into these conversations at random these days. Whenever I do, I see considerably more typing about Mike’s offense than his defense, which I think is pretty odd—and also quite a giveaway considering his offense (taken in whole) is nothing to crow about.

But it’s his defense that lowers our ceiling for as long as he’s here. And if we play things out with him on the roster, we’ll have very little room to maneuver. We’re in a corner. And the smoking gun for all the woe is his defense.

I feel almost a moral duty to keep this perspective frothing right at the top of JFC. Sorry I quoted you this time, haha.

I'm not that worried about his defense if he mostly plays against reserves, which he did in the PO (he would sit early and lead the bench). I can see that trend going forward, depending on matchups. What is really concerning is that we don't have a single defensive stopper on the roster anymore. None. Royce was exposed. Joe has lost a step. JC is, well, JC. Bogie tries but doesn't have the tools (like Conley). DM concentrates on O. Then you have guys like Bradley, Niang, oh my. Big task coming ahead for the FO.

 

[latin jazz]

We just don’t need a true pg. mike was also far worse at creating for others than I thought he’d be.

I think for Mike to be his best version he needs to be a primary ball handler. He still gives off ball value of course. I feel like Joe is best cast in that secondary role. When JC is in there is no secondary... it’s just all JC which is fine for a chunk of the game.

The fit just isn’t ideal.

I think we will see Mike being the 'nominal' starter and mostly play with the bench. Joe is lost without a rolling partner. Felt for him for having to play with Davis' corpse/Bradley. Maybe he gets back into the starting lineup to play pg (in that case we need to pair him with someone better than Royce to defend the opposing pg)
JC is such an akward fit in our system. But our bench was so bad that he became gold.

 

[NAOS]

I'm not that worried about his defense if he mostly plays against reserves, which he did in the PO (he would sit early and lead the bench). I can see that trend going forward, depending on matchups. What is really concerning is that we don't have a single defensive stopper on the roster anymore. None. Royce was exposed. Joe has lost a step. JC is, well, JC. Bogie tries but doesn't have the tools (like Conley). DM concentrates on O. Then you have guys like Bradley, Niang, oh my. Big task coming ahead for the FO.

I don’t think Royce was exposed. He definitely plays with a lot of sub-par perimeter defenders, though. And, in a monotonous/predictable scheme. He’s an above-average defender (in a league where it’s impossible to breathe on your opponent).

 

[latin jazz]

I don’t think Royce was exposed. He definitely plays with a lot of sub-par perimeter defenders, though. And, in a monotonous/predictable scheme. He’s an above-average defender (in a league where it’s impossible to breathe on your opponent).

Agree he is an above average defender. My wording was wrong. I wanted to say that Murray exposed/made pretty clear that Royce is better suited to defend forwards/wings rather than quick guards. He just doesn't have the lateral quickness. And we have no one to guard the Dame/Murray/Steph/Harden/Trae/Kemba/Kyrie's of the world (heck, include 50 point-Derrick Rose in that list )

 

[NAOS]

Agree he is an above average defender. My wording was too wrong. I wanted to say that Murray exposed/made pretty clear that Royce is better suited to defend forwards/wings rather than quick guards. He just doesn't have the lateral quickness. And we have no one to guard the Dame/Murray/Steph/Harden/Trae/Kemba/Kyrie's of the world (heck, include 50 point-Derrick Rose in that list )

This is why I’d want to kick the tires on a Denis Schroeder deal.

 

[Cptgrnlngs22]

If we got horford and Milton would we save enough to resign JC and use the MLE? Or do we still need to dump Davis? Maybe they will take him too hahaha

I’d love to make that trade keep JC and sign KDunn with our MLE

Core players:
Mitchell
Gobert
Bogie
Joe
Royce
JC
Horford
KDunn
Milton

That’s a solid group.


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