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Conservatives refuse to be energy efficient

Some churches allocate their money okay other do not.

The reason people are donating are also good and bad. Some donate to their church because they like where the money goes and a good amount donate because they are obligated by their church too. Not saying good or bad but I think saying religious people donate more to the world than non religious people is an overstatement and not entirely true, that was my point.

Living in Provo I know lots of people who pay their tithing not because they want to or like where it goes but because they are required to to maintain their temple recommend and feel like it is helping them get into heaven. I know lots who pay for good reasons, I just think there is a difference.
 
Do most churches maintain records on their member's tithing donations and bring members in to discuss tithing if the church suspects the member is not paying 10%? I say that assuming that's still how the LDS church operates.
 
Broncster said:
Some churches allocate their money okay other do not.

The reason people are donating are also good and bad. Some donate to their church because they like where the money goes and a good amount donate because they are obligated by their church too. Not saying good or bad but I think saying religious people donate more to the world than non religious people is an overstatement and not entirely true, that was my point.

Living in Provo I know lots of people who pay their tithing not because they want to or like where it goes but because they are required to to maintain their temple recommend and feel like it is helping them get into heaven. I know lots who pay for good reasons, I just think there is a difference.
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Let's say 100% of the tithes collected goes towards the church itself, property upkeep, paying the pastors, water, electricity, etc. How is that a bad thing? I think you would agree most churches teaches people to be loving toward one another, to have forgiveness in their hearts, and to sacrifice themselves for the greater good on the daily basis.

Is there anything wrong with having the congregation coming out of churches each Sunday and trying to be the most loving people they can be?

This is taking it to the extreme. I'm pretty sure in most churches, a % of tithes to go towards other services for the community as well such as financial advice, youth counseling and so on, and so forth.
 
Gameface said:
Do most churches maintain records on their member's tithing donations and bring members in to discuss tithing if the church suspects the member is not paying 10%? I say that assuming that's still how the LDS church operates.
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Not sure about LDS.. but at our church we have an annual GM meeting, go through allocation of budgets, etc, etc, with whoever wants to be involved, usually the senior board is pretty well involved. Everyone is invited to attend and make suggestions.
 
Hotttnickkk said:
Not sure about LDS.. but at our church we have an annual GM meeting, go through allocation of budgets, etc, etc, with whoever wants to be involved, usually the senior board is pretty well involved. Everyone is invited to attend and make suggestions.
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And individual members are taken aside if the amount they've contributed isn't up to snuff?
 
Hotttnickkk said:
Let's say 100% of the tithes collected goes towards the church itself, property upkeep, paying the pastors, water, electricity, etc. How is that a bad thing? I think you would agree most churches teaches people to be loving toward one another, to have forgiveness in their hearts, and to sacrifice themselves for the greater good on the daily basis.

Is there anything wrong with having the congregation coming out of churches each Sunday and trying to be the most loving people they can be?

This is taking it to the extreme. I'm pretty sure in most churches, a % of tithes to go towards other services for the community as well such as financial advice, youth counseling and so on, and so forth.
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Well we could argue whether churches are good or bad for society but I dont really care about that point.

My point was simply that it is different in my opinion to count those charities because it is self serving but I think it is great if you donate to something you feel is great. I personally donate a large chunk of money to things you probably dont think are all that great, like gay rights, so I guess there is lots of sides to this.
 
Broncster said:
Well we could argue whether churches are good or bad for society but I dont really care about that point.

My point was simply that it is different in my opinion to count those charities because it is self serving but I think it is great if you donate to something you feel is great. I personally donate a large chunk of money to things you probably dont think are all that great, like gay rights, so I guess there is lots of sides to this.
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Self serving or not, if in the end it's able to lessen someone else's suffering and make this world a happier, more peaceful place, I would consider that to be a charitable endeavor.
 
Gameface said:
And individual members are taken aside if the amount they've contributed isn't up to snuff?
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No, they just simply update you on whether or not we're meeting the budget.

If they don't meet budget, then I guess they'll re-assess everything. If it's determined that the pastor team isn't doing a very good job, and people are turning away, then I suspect they'll just get voted out the next term by the senior board.

Last week our senior pastor said it himself, he's not under a contract. If he's not doing a good job of ministering, he could be let go at any given time.

In the olden day though, priests are the only ones who brings messages from God and the congregation do not have access. Nowadays we believe that by accepting Christ, we can pray to God at any time.

So the role of the church has changed somewhat, from a place you go to Worship & Confess your Sins, to what it is nowadays, more of a place of gathering to celebrate and learn more about the love of God.
 
Gameface said:
Do most churches maintain records on their member's tithing donations and bring members in to discuss tithing if the church suspects the member is not paying 10%? I say that assuming that's still how the LDS church operates.
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Yes, you are encouraged to schedule a meeting with the bishop. The meeting is not mandatory. I went for several years without paying tithing or meeting with the bishop. Not once was I asked to come into his office over it (actually two bishops during that time). Never was my membership at issue. Could I go to the temple during that period? No. But I don't see that as denying me a right because I wasn't paying tithing. Temple attendance, to Latter-Day Saints, represents a commitment to the teachings of the church and a promise to live the gospel of Jesus Christ to the best of our ability. Even as a full tithe-payer, there have been many periods in my life when I didn't feel like I was living in accord with Christ's teachings and therefore did not enter the temple. IMO, it's as much an attitude as one's actions. As to Broncster's remark, "I know lots of people who pay their tithing not because they want to or like where it goes but because they are required to to maintain their temple recommend and feel like it is helping them get into heaven," I would respond that if this is the attitude of those people, then they are missing the mark. The phrase. "they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me" comes to mind, although it is not my place to really judge one's intent. Far better for them to be paying a tithe than spending their money on drugs, partying, etc.
 
Broncster said:
Well we could argue whether churches are good or bad for society but I dont really care about that point.

My point was simply that it is different in my opinion to count those charities because it is self serving but I think it is great if you donate to something you feel is great. I personally donate a large chunk of money to things you probably dont think are all that great, like gay rights, so I guess there is lots of sides to this.
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I think it's great you contribute to charities you feel are important, whether that be gay rights, cancer prevention, animal shelters, etc. I don't think donating to religious causes is self-serving. We donate to the causes we feel are important. Should we not "count" a cancer survivor's contributions to the Leukemia Society because he/she is hoping that money will help find a cure? Is that self-serving? I'm sure a lot of gay people contribute to organizations which promote gay rights. Would that not be self-serving? In all cases, these donations are made by people who believe their charity will make the world a better place. And I think that's the same philosophy one has when making a donation to a religious cause.
 
Stoked said:
Also I wonder why that tendency is. Interesting quirk.
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I would suspect that an environmental label generally signals an inferior product.

Reminds me vaguely of the studies which show that liberals are more apt to purchase a product with any perceived environmental benefit, even if said product is inferior or more expensive, so long as they get visible credit for it (for example, Prius purchases as a percentage of similar hybrid purchases being much more popular in SF/Seattle because it's visibly hybrid, solar panels being installed on the shady side of the house just because it's the front (public facing) side of the house...)

Also similar to a study that Yoplait(?) did on yogurts marked as "low fat" -- same yogurt, same packaging, only the label was different. Customers preferred the non-low fat label. Not sure if the study broke the results down by BMI.

One Brow, did you buy access to that report? Curious about the exact methodology.
 
bordelais7 said:
I would suspect that an environmental label generally signals an inferior product.

...

One Brow, did you buy access to that report? Curious about the exact methodology.
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No, I don't have access to it.

It's interesting how adding that phrase seems to reduce the perceived quality for some posters (not just you).
 
One Brow said:
No, I don't have access to it.

It's interesting how adding that phrase seems to reduce the perceived quality for some posters (not just you).
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I'll freely admit that I immediately assume a trade-off in quality if something is packaged to appeal to the energy-conscious. But that's where I'm curious about the methodology. Were users presented the products with different labels, or were they actually told "look, clown...these are the exact same thing". I'm happy to save the pandas if it doesn't cost me anything. I'm sure there are some who would still buy the inefficient product simply out of hate for the environment -- or more likely, environmentalISTs.
 
The Thriller said:
I've also heard that conservatives hate babies and don't believe in Santa.
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Just the opposite, actually. Conservatives have been fighting for decades to keep our fireplaces and chimneys. On the other hand, liberals are trying to force Santa to purchase carbon offsets for all the air travel he does on December 24th/25th. And Obamacare will force him to pay more for his health coverage as Santa obviously has a BMI that is too high.
 
Broncster said:
Charities that are not forced for you to invest in to be a member of your church are a little different.
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Wait, there are churches out there that force you to donate to charities in order to be a member? Who the **** would waste their time with that crap?

Broncster said:
Living in Provo I know lots of people who pay their tithing not because they want to or like where it goes but because they are required to to maintain their temple recommend and feel like it is helping them get into heaven.
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Again, I question if there are really people out there that feel/think that way. If you really know people who have said those things, I want to know what is wrong with them. Like, they must have a mental disorder of some kind, right?

Gameface said:
Do most churches maintain records on their member's tithing donations and bring members in to discuss tithing if the church suspects the member is not paying 10%? I say that assuming that's still how the LDS church operates.
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Has the LDS church ever operated like that? I get a sheet every year that shows what we paid (for tax reasons, I have always thought), and we decide if it was a full 10% or not. It's up to me to go to the bishop and let him know if I've paid a full 10 or not. They don't track you down. Trust me when I say that they have more important things to worry about.

Paying tithing is a privilege for a lot of LDS people, along with going to the temple. Neither tithing nor temple attendance is required to be a member of the church, and failure to do either of those things will not keep you out of heaven. (according to the gospel of Elvis J. Wells) People like Broncster take their ideas and ignorance and blow things way out of proportion -- and I love Broncster.
 
E.J. Wells said:
Wait, there are churches out there that force you to donate to charities in order to be a member? Who the **** would waste their time with that crap?

You are right overstatement but to be in good standing with the church, yes.


Again, I question if there are really people out there that feel/think that way. If you really know people who have said those things, I want to know what is wrong with them. Like, they must have a mental disorder of some kind, right?




Paying tithing is a privilege for a lot of LDS people, along with going to the temple. Neither tithing nor temple attendance is required to be a member of the church, and failure to do either of those things will not keep you out of heaven. (according to the gospel of Elvis J. Wells) People like Broncster take their ideas and ignorance and blow things way out of proportion -- and I love Broncster.
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Not all and not even the majority of LDS people act like I described but yes there are people like that and it is common. I was not trying to "blow" anything out of proportion, I think a few people are trying to make this more personal than intended and more defensive than anticipated, but sometimes my writing is more direct than intended.

Being LDS is just as much part of the social structure of Provo as it is religion. I do believe guilt and acceptance is a part of the reason people do things. I am not saying the LDS church hammers people or forces people to pay tithes but it is a requirement to be in good standings with the LDS church hence people put more pressure on themselves to obey.

My understanding is the LDS church keeps record of all tithes paid provides a sheet with the numbers on it and asks if you paid your 10 percent. There is pressure for some people and people react differently to pressure.
 
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