Conspiracy Theory Corner

[Saint Cy of JFC]

The Jazz could trade Walker today and I'd still have the same opinion.


You mean when he played the 4 beside Capela at the 5?

Ok? The point is his entire career he's been a positive defender. Maybe, just maybe, being on the Jazz (who explicitly said coaching defense was not a priority) might have been the biggest contributing factor, not John Collins playing.

Yes, when Walker played the team was dramatically better in defense, because that's the only reason Walker Kessler is in the NBA, to be a defender.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Mike Conley first year in Utah he rated out as a negative defender among many advanced defensive stats and was barely positive on O. One of his worst advance stats seasons since his rookie contract years. Sometimes guys just take time to adjust to a new team..

 

[KqWIN]

And if GS was the other suitor for BI it would make some sense to keep them on the line.

With BI it could be a stealth tank move if the guy plays 40-50 games. I just would try to avoid paying him this offseason unless he’s gonna take 35M a year… he’s looking for max but maybe sees the writing on the wall. Either way I’d play hardball and risk him walking if I had to. You’d at least end up with some cap space so not the end of the world. I’d probably rather just not and move Kessler somewhere else for draft comp.

You know me…I strongly believe it’s depth and vets that win RS games and we’d lower our count by trading two for one. Divine intervention is easier when it’s just one guy, and even without any intervention I think you’d expect Ingram to play less minutes than Collins or Kessler based on history. Having as much talent concentrated in the fewest amount of players would be the most effective way to try to operate out of the middle. Much better than being in the middle bc you have 10+ good role players IMO.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Ingram has top 25 potential if you can teach him to play a more modern style where he holds the ball less

I understand the Pelicans have tried to do that, so maybe it's not a likely outcome, but maybe in a contract year he is more willing to change.

 

[MTS]

Ok? The point is his entire career he's been a positive defender. Maybe, just maybe, being on the Jazz (who explicitly said coaching defense was not a priority) might have been the biggest contributing factor, not John Collins playing.

He's been a positive defender when he has an elite rim protector playing the 5 while he's playing the 4. My argument is that him playing the 5 is untenable.

Yes, when Walker played the team was dramatically better in defense, because that's the only reason Walker Kessler is in the NBA, to be a defender.

I don't really care about the comparison to Walker, but if you're truly hellbent on including him in this discussion, the team's defensive dropoff from Kessler to Collins was mountains larger than the team's offensive dropoff from Collins to Kessler.

Kessler is a very flawed offensive player - maybe it's too hard to built a great offense with him at the 5. I don't know. What I do know is Collins at the 5 ain't it.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

He's been a positive defender when he has an elite rim protector playing the 5 while he's playing the 4. My argument is that him playing the 5 is untenable.


I don't really care about the comparison to Walker, but if you're truly hellbent on including him in this discussion, the team's defensive dropoff from Kessler to Collins was mountains larger than the team's offensive dropoff from Collins to Kessler.

Kessler is a very flawed offensive player - maybe it's too hard to built a great offense with him at the 5. I don't know. What I do know is Collins at the 5 ain't it.

Clint Capella is not an elite rim protector and he played with other combos outside of Capela

 

[KqWIN]

Mike Conley first year in Utah he rated out as a negative defender among many advanced defensive stats and was barely positive on O. One of his worst advance stats seasons since his rookie contract years. Sometimes guys just take time to adjust to a new team..

With Collins, you can just look at first half versus second half. His on court rating was worse in the first half despite playing with significantly better players….sometimes it takes time to adjust. I used to be a guy to scoff at this, but it does matter.

Also, Hardy was pretty open about not really focusing on defense. We shouldn’t put all the blame on him. So yeah….I don’t think we necessarily “deserve” a ton from Collins, but a team with the right situation could definitely find themselves interested in Collins.

He’s not a superstar player or anything. But yeah, still very useful to teams in the right situation. Pelicans fans are not crazy for thinking he could help them.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Walker Kessler is a better rim protector than Capella has ever been and the D was not good with Collins/Walker.....

Maybe it was Utah... Idk why that's hard to fathom

 

[KqWIN]

Ingram has top 25 potential if you can teach him to play a more modern style where he holds the ball less

I understand the Pelicans have tried to do that, so maybe it's not a likely outcome, but maybe in a contract year he is more willing to change.

He has the same problem as Sexton, doesn’t like to catch and shoot. The Jazz have gotten Sexton to take that shot more often….maybe they can get Ingram on board.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

He has the same problem as Sexton, doesn’t like to catch and shoot. The Jazz have gotten Sexton to take that shot more often….maybe they can get Ingram on board.

The weird thing is that he has done it then he stopped doing it. I do wonder if not having a quality PG to play next to caused that.

I know Sexton isn't the most point guardy point guard, but he's better than McCollum

 

[KqWIN]

The weird thing is that he has done it then he stopped doing it. I do wonder if not having a quality PG to play next to caused that.

I know Sexton isn't the most point guardy point guard, but he's better than McCollum

Yeah, it’s odd. In general, I tend to be more optimistic about players who have demonstrated ability. Ingram is more than capable and has proven that.

 

[MTS]

Walker Kessler is a better rim protector than Capella has ever been and the D was not good with Collins/Walker.....

Maybe it was Utah... Idk why that's hard to fathom

My problem with "it's Utah" is that, before the Jazz went into all-out tank mode, their defense with Collins on the court was the worst in the league by a mile, and their defense with Collins *off* the court was literally top 5.

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Jazz DRTG with Collins on court: 122.7
Jazz DRTG with Collins off court: 111.4

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122.7 would be good for dead last by a mile - 111.4 is top 5.

That's pretty ridiculous.