Coronavirus

[TheGoldStandard]

I want to apologize for my earlier tone. It came off a lot more harsh than intended. Way, WAY more harsh than intended.

That said, the statistics you are citing have a lot of issues. The Payne, et al study only found 8 incidents for those aged 4-13 across 7 states. They then extrapolated that into the number you gave by multiplying it by the true number of 4-13 year old kids infected. That would be fine if we knew that number, but we don't and the models estimating that number vary wildly. The researchers could pick whatever study they wanted. The one they chose was from 18 months ago, and the only reason I can imagine for picking a study that old was because it gave numbers that hiked the per-1m number the most.

The bottom line is this, in that study they only found 8 incidents in an huge population that included New York, New Jersey, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Massachusetts, Georgia, and Connecticut. In the vaccine trials given to only 2,200 kids, they came up with 9 incidents. What will happen when the vaccine is given to millions of kids? I don't know but I am going to sit back and watch before I line my kid up for that shot. Myocarditis is the dangerous part of MIS-C so this very much is apples-to-apples.

If you have young kids, you see those statistics, and you still want to inject your kid then I won't stand in your way or disparage you. If you don't have young kids but instead want to use your franchise to get the government to do that to my kid against my will, then we're going to have some words.

Again, you need to look at the morbidity numbers, which are produced and readily available. You are misinterpreting the CDC statistics.

The CDC experts expect 56-69 cases of myocarditis per 1MM male children aged 12-17 vaccinated. These same vaccinations will prevent 215 COVID-19 hospitalizations per 1 Million Doses, 71 ICU admissions, and 2 deaths. And this does not include the expected 336 cases of MIS-C caused after COVID-19 infection. Keep in mind that these numbers are calculated as +/- 10% of crude VAERS reporting rates, and include cases of myocarditis, pericarditis, and myopericarditis. The analysis evaluated direct benefit and harm, per million second doses of mRNA COVID-19 vaccine given in the applicable age group over 120 days.

Because of this clear and convincing data, the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices concluded that the benefits of the COVID-19 vaccination to individual persons at the population level clearly outweighed the risks of myocarditis after vaccination.

Directly from the CDC Morbidity and Mortality Week Report on this issue: "Continued use of mRNA COVID-19 vaccines in all recommended age groups (referencing report regarding children) will prevent morbidity and mortality that far exceed the number of cases of myocarditis expected"

For children with COVID-19, the risk of myocarditis is 37 times higher for children under 16 compared to those uninfected.

And finally, while more data will come in, most researches believe the higher risk in older male children is tied to puberty and increased testosterone production, which has been confirmed previously in animal studies, which actually leads to a lower risk for males under 12, which is consistent with Pfizer's report that serious adverse events was less than 2 in 1000, with all adverse events found to be unrelated to the vaccine.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

Why do you say that being vaccinated doesn't make a difference?

I don't say that. I'm poking fun at that idea. The phrase "inflict the same consequences on everyone" makes that implication. I think that idea is so obviously self-refuting that its practically got its own flashing neon sign pointing out the internal contradiction. I find it amazing that so many people repeat it.

 

[One Brow]

The argument goes with "inflict the same consequences on everyone", not a small subset, "everyone". Immuno-compromised, not immuno-compromised, vaccinated, unvaccinated, young, old, EVERYONE will be inflicted by the SAME consequences. According to the argument, being vaccinated doesn't make a difference so the only way to make a difference is to be vaccinated.

I suppose you could have said that not everyone would be at risk, just those who can't benefit from vaccination, so it's OK if people choose to not be vaccinated and put them at risk. I guess you didn't want to sound like a heartless jerk.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

These same vaccinations will prevent 215 COVID-19 hospitalizations per 1 Million Doses, 71 ICU admissions, and 2 deaths. And this does not include the expected 336 cases of MIS-C caused after COVID-19 infection.

Why wouldn't it? If the vaccinations would prevent that many COVID hospitalizations, and MIS-C is a type of COVID hospitalization, why wouldn't they be included?

 

[TheGoldStandard]

Why wouldn't it? If the vaccinations would prevent that many COVID hospitalizations, and MIS-C is a type of COVID hospitalization, why wouldn't they be included?

Simple. Because it develops multiple weeks after someone has COVID, so the hospitalization is for MIS-C, not COVID. We know they are related to COVID, because they develop after kids have COVID, but the hospitalization figures don't include all of the data.

 

[The Thriller]

So a few things here.

#1 Mandatory vaccines was settled decades ago. If you attended a public school (and most private schools I imagine) then you needed to show vaccination records. If you served an LDS mission? You had to show a vaccination record. The only reason why compulsory vaccination is suddenly controversial is because anti vax grifters have figured out a way to exploit social media to sell their disinformation and one major political party has made being anti science (the parts of science they don’t like. They still enjoy the science that allows them to watch porn on their phones) a part of their (tribal) identity.

#2 The concept of freedom I’m seeing posted a lot is so juvenile and silly that you damn grown adults should feel ashamed to be expressing it. Like my wife and I taught kindergarten children in primary and they had a greater understanding of the social contract theory and freedom than you.

Freedom doesn’t mean that you’re free to do whatever the **** you want without consequence. Just because you were born in America doesn’t grant you with the right to run red lights, drain lead paint into the gutter, drive under the influence, or not get vaccinated. Most of us learn by kindergarten/1st grade that in order to function in our society and enjoy both collective and individual freedoms that you have a responsibility to society. You have a responsibility to get your lazy *** vaccinated. You have NO right to get the rest of us sick with a virus that should be prevented. Want to participate in our society? Get the **** vaccinated. Sorry, but the Bible doesn’t say **** about vaccines, so don’t use that lame *** religious excuse. Don’t want to be vaccinated? Cool sheeple, give up your job, never leave your home, and stay sucking your thumb in the fetal position.

I firmly believe that our country needs to tackle its narcissism/hyper individualism or else our liberal democracy will fall apart. Liberal democracy requires citizens thinking about something other than their immediate gratification. We need citizens who can think long term (more than just 5 seconds into the future) and think about something other than themselves and their own private parts. If you want to forfeit the economic and social advantages of compulsory vaccinations, please do us all a favor and move to Afghanistan. I’ll personally buy you a one way ticket.

The rest of the civilized world will move on, with our science, first rate economies, life spans that will exceed yours 2-4 times, and vaccines.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

Simple. Because it develops multiple weeks after someone has COVID, so the hospitalization is for MIS-C, not COVID. We know they are related to COVID, because they develop after kids have COVID, but the hospitalization figures don't include all of the data.

I don't think you are shooting straight on this. First, MIS-C can develop multiple weeks later but that is absolutely not true in every case. You made a claim that every one of the MIS-C hospitalizations was excluded from the CDC statistics, not just the late developing ones but ALL of them.

Second, you are going to have to show me something to back your assertion of a time limit on what can be considered a COVID-linked hospitalization. From what I've seen, every time a hospitalization is linked to COVID it counts as a COVID-linked hospitalization, and if whomever you are citing is linking cases of MIS-C to COVID then it is a COVID-linked case and would count as a COVID-linked hospitalization. Your claims of there being some sort of time limit being applied to links is not a thing I've heard from anyone.

 

[TheGoldStandard]

I don't think you are shooting straight on this. First, MIS-C can develop multiple weeks later but that is absolutely not true in every case. You made a claim that every one of the MIS-C hospitalizations was excluded from the CDC statistics, not just the late developing ones but ALL of them.

Second, you are going to have to show me something to back your assertion of a time limit on what can be considered a COVID-linked hospitalization. From what I've seen, every time a hospitalization is linked to COVID it counts as a COVID-linked hospitalization, and if whomever you are citing is linking cases of MIS-C to COVID then it is a COVID-linked case and would count as a COVID-linked hospitalization. Your claims of there being some sort of time limit being applied to links is not a thing I've heard from anyone.

Data is all there, I don't "have" to show you anything. Continue to believe what you want and rely on the half-truths you keep referencing.

Again, enjoy your swim.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

Data is all there, I don't "have" to show you anything.

Right. The data is all there but you can't point to any of it.

I have no problem showing the goods. Here is the first notice published by the CDC:

HAN Archive - 00432 | Health Alert Network (HAN)

Health Alert Network (HAN). Provided by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

emergency.cdc.gov

Here is a quote from that notice worth calling attention to:

...reports of previously healthy children presenting with a severe inflammatory syndrome with Kawasaki disease-like features. The cases occurred in children testing positive for current or recent infection by SARS-CoV-2, the novel coronavirus that causes COVID-19

Your story is that a kid in the hospital with a current SARS-CoV-2 infection that has resulted in MIS-C is not counted as a COVID hospitalization. What you are saying is untrue. Of course a kid in the hospital for an active COVID infection that has been confirmed by PCR test is considered a COVID hospitalization. The MIS-C kids are included in the CDC statistics. The new numbers are lower than the ones in the study you keep quoting because that old study was scare-mongering garbage and has been replaced by better data published directly on the CDC site which I have shared in this thread previously.

 

[TheGoldStandard]

Right. The data is all there but you can't point to any of it.

I have no problem showing the goods. Here is the first notice published by the CDC:

HAN Archive - 00432 | Health Alert Network (HAN)

Health Alert Network (HAN). Provided by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

emergency.cdc.gov

Here is a quote from that notice worth calling attention to:


Your story is that a kid in the hospital with a current SARS-CoV-2 infection that has resulted in MIS-C is not counted as a COVID hospitalization. What you are saying is untrue. Of course a kid in the hospital for an active COVID infection that has been confirmed by PCR test is considered a COVID hospitalization. The MIS-C kids are included in the CDC statistics. The new numbers are lower than the ones in the study you keep quoting because that old study was scare-mongering garbage and has been replaced by better data published directly on the CDC site which I have shared in this thread previously.

All you do is latch onto tiny facets to run false narratives.

The large majority of MIS-C cases present 2-3 weeks after, which was an antecdote to the point of my entire post showing ample CDC data to show that the vaccine is much safer than the alternative.

The numbers overall clearly show the vaccine is safer for kids and many posters have provided data to back up, which you continue to ignore. Some people like @One Brow will continue to respond to your crazy posts on a topic you clearly know little about, with misconstrued data to try and push your narrative, but I won't be one of them. You simply aren't worth the keystrokes if you can't see past your own nose.

 

[The Thriller]

All you do is latch onto tiny facets to run false narratives.

The large majority of MIS-C cases present 2-3 weeks after, which was an antecdote to the point of my entire post showing ample CDC data to show that the vaccine is much safer than the alternative.

The numbers overall clearly show the vaccine is safer for kids and many posters have provided data to back up, which you continue to ignore. Some people like @One Brow will continue to respond to your crazy posts on a topic you clearly know little about, with misconstrued data to try and push your narrative, but I won't be one of them. You simply aren't worth the keystrokes if you can't see past your own nose.

I’m glad more people are catching on to the posters who do nothing more than waste the time and energy of others. It’s not that everyone must think the same; it’s the a) Alt facts/cherry-picking and b) bad faith arguments that gets me.

 

[BabyPeterzz]

My fav conspiracy theory:

Nolte: Data Confirms Trump Counties Dying to Own the Libs

The latest data shows that people lin Trump counties are dying at a much higher rate than people in Democrat counties.

www.google.com

The libtards are purposefully spreading misinformation on the vaccine to convince conservatives not to get it. Thus killing off conservatives, just like Fauci and China designed.

Conservative America has problems.


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[Hax0rs]

Sick People want to do sick things to otherwise healthy kids

 

[One Brow]

Sick People want to do sick things to otherwise healthy kids

Cruel people want to deny health to kids.

 

[fishonjazz]

My fav conspiracy theory:

Nolte: Data Confirms Trump Counties Dying to Own the Libs

The latest data shows that people lin Trump counties are dying at a much higher rate than people in Democrat counties.

www.google.com

The libtards are purposefully spreading misinformation on the vaccine to convince conservatives not to get it. Thus killing off conservatives, just like Fauci and China designed.

Conservative America has problems.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Lol. Idiots. We are killing ourselves becuase the libs are making us do it!
Seriously though that article is looney tunes. It talks about how no one is talking about how effective the vaccine is at preventing death and hospitalization because the left doesnt want the right to know how good the vaccine is. Wtf? I have seen so many articles and information about that topic.



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[The Thriller]

Lol. Idiots. We are killing ourselves becuase the libs are making us do it!
Seriously though that article is looney tunes. It talks about how no one is talking about how effective the vaccine is at preventing death and hospitalization because the left doesnt want the right to know how good the vaccine is. Wtf? I have seen so many articles and information about that topic.



Sent from my iPad using JazzFanz mobile app

It actually reminds me of a course I took back in the day about the Holocaust. The right back then claimed that Jews were behind Communism in the Soviet Union and were a threat to capitalists in Germany. But Jews were also behind the capitalism of the UK and United States and were a threat to German workers who wanted higher wages and better working conditions. They tie themselves up into incoherent knots blaming some scapegoat for problems the German right created.

Back then I couldn't understand how anyone with two brain cells could think that way. Now after covid, it totally makes sense. Again, I'm reminded of when I was a child and my parents asked me to do something I didn't want to do. Put away toys, make my bed, eat vegetables, etc. I didn't want to do these things anyway. But then after they told me to, I really wanted to stick it to them by not doing those things. I guess the lesson is a lot of people still act like children?

 

[Gameface]

Lol. Idiots. We are killing ourselves becuase the libs are making us do it!
Seriously though that article is looney tunes. It talks about how no one is talking about how effective the vaccine is at preventing death and hospitalization because the left doesnt want the right to know how good the vaccine is. Wtf? I have seen so many articles and information about that topic.



Sent from my iPad using JazzFanz mobile app

Mega pet peeve of mine is when an information source (or a misinformation source) proclaims "What they don't want you to know," or "What no one is talking about," or "What they won't tell you is," it is almost always NOT true, but within an information bubble it works because the audience isn't listening to what "they" are saying, they're just believing what their misinformation source tells them "they" are talking about. Then they march out into the world thinking they know stuff the other side either doesn't know or is actively trying to hide and it's pathetic and laughable.

Like talking to a moon landing conspiracy theorist who thinks the only reason I belive the moon landings actually happened is because they haven't shown me all the information "they" didn't want me to find out. I look at the same old pile of nonsense I've seen 100% and reject it, again, and they tell me that I'm a sheeple. Rinse, wash, repeat.

 

[Douchebag K]

Sick People want to do sick things to otherwise healthy kids

yup unless the kids have a significant health issue that puts them more at risk ... risking this reaction for a virus that for a healthy young kid is so highly unlikely to give any significant symptom is dubious at best and could be construed as reckless. Ethically particularly forcing vaccination on this age group in order to "protect those around them" is .. well an issue not to be sneezed at.

 

[One Brow]

yup unless the kids have a significant health issue that puts them more at risk ... risking this reaction for a virus that for a healthy young kid is so highly unlikely to give any significant symptom is dubious at best and could be construed as reckless.

As has already been presented, and should be obvious, the risk from the disease is higher than the risk from the vaccine, even if you assume only a 50% chance to catch the disease if not vaccinated.

Ethically particularly forcing vaccination on this age group in order to "protect those around them" is .. well an issue not to be sneezed at.

True. In the US, no one is being forced into vaccination.

 

[Hax0rs]

yup unless the kids have a significant health issue that puts them more at risk ... risking this reaction for a virus that for a healthy young kid is so highly unlikely to give any significant symptom is dubious at best and could be construed as reckless. Ethically particularly forcing vaccination on this age group in order to "protect those around them" is .. well an issue not to be sneezed at.

These morons want to vaccinate kids with a untested vaccine, that doesn't "immunize" but "protect" per the CDC(changed the definition of vaccine this year), from a disease that they are less likely to die from than be struck by lightning.

MORONS