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You quite clearly don't have a clue--e.g., dual citizenship alone doesn't qualify you for healthcare.

Maybe stick to topics you know something about.


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I do understand that, but my dual citizenship makes it fairly easy. I even confirmed I can keep dual citizenship as that would have been a deal breaker if we decided to do it (mainly considered it as part of a move to live in AB in the spring and summer. Having family and my own cabin on our property in Alberta and living by the border would make it easy to spend 183 days living there. Didn't realize I needed to spell out the whole process on a message board, especially because that wasn't the main point of my post.
 
Yeah, I didn't bring Germany into the equation. Doctors get paid fairly well in Germany, with excellent perks, but the taxes are crazy! Our German friends that are both physicians, start paying 42% in tax after they hit less that $50k in income (they also get crazy leave time for having kids, and our male friend is a government doctor, and his time off and benefits are equally insane). That would have to be the trade-off. Much higher taxes on the middle class and above to cover the costs.

I used Canada as they are fairly close to us taxwise, so we can see the correlation of what would likely happen.
You used Canada as an example to fault all universal health systems. Fact is in almost every measure we are anywhere from 15th to 21st in terms of our healthcare system compared to other developed nations. We are solidly in 1st in one measure: cost, especially to the individual. Availability, as in how many people are covered, we are dead last. Wait times are very difficult to quantify, but even by this measure the WHO put out a report a few years back that has us below middle of the pack, like 15th I believe it was. Patient to doctor ratio we are something like 18th (a lower ratio being better - 18th place means doctors have less time to spend with patients). And worse, in terms of outcomes, like mortality rates, life expectancy, infant mortality rates, we are anywhere from last to within a few spots of last. It is no joke, our system of medicine in this country is broken and is costing lives. Everyone wants you skim over that fact and good straight to inconvenience and money. More people, per capita, die earlier in our system than most any other developed nation on the planet, including Canada. It might seem minor, but only if you believe corporate profits are more important than human life. And yes it really is that simple. We have commoditized healthcare, and made it a luxury good. People that for whatever reason have no health insurance are very often driven to bankruptcy because they have no choice if something comes up. I had a friend who was one of those guys vocal about "I shouldn't pay for everybody's healthcare if I'm healthy" and being self-employed, young, and healthy he carried the minimum he could. Until his car accident. Fell asleep on a long drive. Months in the hospital. Nearly destroyed him financially. Ended up in bankruptcy. But many others are in worse situations where they have to choose between paying bills or buying food and seeking necessary medical care.

As far as your German friends and their tax rate they are inflating the number for sure. I made 140k euros while I lived there and my tax rate was right around 35%, however that includes the medical premium.

Here is a fun exercise. Take everything you spent on medical care in the last full year, you know, pre-covid, so it isn't jacked up by a wonky economy. That means everything, premiums, deductibles, prescriptions, the works. Now subtract about 5% to account for the fact that in Germany you do pay copays for a lot of stuff out of pocket. Like for 3 nights in a specialty hospital for my son we played a 10 euro copay per night. Now, take that number and add it to your taxes paid. How much does your tax rate go up? See, ALL of that is part of the tax rate in Germany. It is income driven, on a sliding scale.

We did exactly this exercise and compared the year before we went to Germany to the year we were there. Overall we paid almost double on healthcare in the US, INCLUDING our higher taxes in Germany due to the healthcare portion.

Almost all of these arguments are borne our by real-world research and reports, too. People try to make it sound like everyone in countries like Germany just want out so their taxes come down and they don't have to wait 87 months to see a doctor and that's all a load of ********. My German friends, including 3 physicians and a dentist, and a guy from the US who went there to get his medically degree as tuition was cheaper and stayed there because he likes the system far better than in the US, all were amazed how terrible it is here in the US by comparison, including the tax rate. Germans complain about it, like everyone does everywhere, but they also recognize that everyone benefits through increased productivity and fewer health concerns. Same reason every German company gives, and often enforces, 4 weeks of vacation every year. They recognize they get that back with happier and healthier employees.

In this regard, America is broken, by developed nation standards. Now if you want to complete with like Iran, well then...we are behind them in infant mortality. So maybe it's not as great as you think.
 
See my edit to the above post that I was likely making as you made your post. Agree something has to change, but facts are consistent. CDN wait times are double of ours. As said above, I'm all for limiting costs for pharma, medical equipment, etc. to the average of what other 1st world countries pay (or a similar metric). As another poster said in the past on here somewhere, we shouldn't subsidize the world's medical costs by paying "full price" for what the rest of the world limits. It would force these companies to demand more across the board instead of the U.S. covering the profits for these companies. Seems to be an "easy" first step.

We deal with similar stuff with my daughter who has CP, so I can relate. I'm just skeptical that our government would actually do a good job and lower costs. Every time they put something in to be a benefit or lower costs, costs go up!
Where are you getting wait times? Almost every actual report on wait times excludes the US because we have no national standard nor mandate. These reports exclude Germany too, for the same reason. Can't compare apples to apples. I would doubt very much that it is that much worse on the whole.
 
Yes, those professionals probably are crazy, and are a danger to their patients.
How is a unvaccinated medical expert dangerous to the patient? Should i refuse an urgent surgery if the only option is unvaccinated medical staff? Or any other life threating situation (accident in sea or river or mountain)? Or really any situation in life (help in repairworks of house etc etc) My wife got a lot of medical help in summer 2020 where the COVID was widespread and no vaccine available. IMHO it would be kind of silly should i refuse the help and die only because the helping person is not vaccinated.
I am fully vaccinated (because wife told already to my doctor in october 2020 when the first hints of Pfizer vaccine were announced that when possible to vaccinate, then we are ready, just call). But getting freaked out when somebody is not vaccinated is IMHO a nonsense.
 
How is a unvaccinated medical expert dangerous to the patient? Should i refuse an urgent surgery if the only option is unvaccinated medical staff?
What a horrible argument. If the surgery is urgent the risks of delaying it or skipping it are probably larger than the risk of getting a disease from your practitioner. It's still irresponsible for your practitioner to increase your risk in that fashion.

My wife got a lot of medical help in summer 2020 where the COVID was widespread and no vaccine available.
In the US in 2021, the vaccine is widely available, so this is not an issue today.

But getting freaked out when somebody is not vaccinated is IMHO a nonsense.
Who's freaked out?
 
Where are you getting wait times? Almost every actual report on wait times excludes the US because we have no national standard nor mandate. These reports exclude Germany too, for the same reason. Can't compare apples to apples. I would doubt very much that it is that much worse on the whole.
See links referenced in prior post.
 
You used Canada as an example to fault all universal health systems. Fact is in almost every measure we are anywhere from 15th to 21st in terms of our healthcare system compared to other developed nations. We are solidly in 1st in one measure: cost, especially to the individual. Availability, as in how many people are covered, we are dead last. Wait times are very difficult to quantify, but even by this measure the WHO put out a report a few years back that has us below middle of the pack, like 15th I believe it was. Patient to doctor ratio we are something like 18th (a lower ratio being better - 18th place means doctors have less time to spend with patients). And worse, in terms of outcomes, like mortality rates, life expectancy, infant mortality rates, we are anywhere from last to within a few spots of last. It is no joke, our system of medicine in this country is broken and is costing lives. Everyone wants you skim over that fact and good straight to inconvenience and money. More people, per capita, die earlier in our system than most any other developed nation on the planet, including Canada. It might seem minor, but only if you believe corporate profits are more important than human life. And yes it really is that simple. We have commoditized healthcare, and made it a luxury good. People that for whatever reason have no health insurance are very often driven to bankruptcy because they have no choice if something comes up. I had a friend who was one of those guys vocal about "I shouldn't pay for everybody's healthcare if I'm healthy" and being self-employed, young, and healthy he carried the minimum he could. Until his car accident. Fell asleep on a long drive. Months in the hospital. Nearly destroyed him financially. Ended up in bankruptcy. But many others are in worse situations where they have to choose between paying bills or buying food and seeking necessary medical care.

As far as your German friends and their tax rate they are inflating the number for sure. I made 140k euros while I lived there and my tax rate was right around 35%, however that includes the medical premium.

Here is a fun exercise. Take everything you spent on medical care in the last full year, you know, pre-covid, so it isn't jacked up by a wonky economy. That means everything, premiums, deductibles, prescriptions, the works. Now subtract about 5% to account for the fact that in Germany you do pay copays for a lot of stuff out of pocket. Like for 3 nights in a specialty hospital for my son we played a 10 euro copay per night. Now, take that number and add it to your taxes paid. How much does your tax rate go up? See, ALL of that is part of the tax rate in Germany. It is income driven, on a sliding scale.

We did exactly this exercise and compared the year before we went to Germany to the year we were there. Overall we paid almost double on healthcare in the US, INCLUDING our higher taxes in Germany due to the healthcare portion.

Almost all of these arguments are borne our by real-world research and reports, too. People try to make it sound like everyone in countries like Germany just want out so their taxes come down and they don't have to wait 87 months to see a doctor and that's all a load of ********. My German friends, including 3 physicians and a dentist, and a guy from the US who went there to get his medically degree as tuition was cheaper and stayed there because he likes the system far better than in the US, all were amazed how terrible it is here in the US by comparison, including the tax rate. Germans complain about it, like everyone does everywhere, but they also recognize that everyone benefits through increased productivity and fewer health concerns. Same reason every German company gives, and often enforces, 4 weeks of vacation every year. They recognize they get that back with happier and healthier employees.

In this regard, America is broken, by developed nation standards. Now if you want to complete with like Iran, well then...we are behind them in infant mortality. So maybe it's not as great as you think.
I don't disagree, and a frustration with Obamacare essentially did nothing to control costs, just try to cover more under insurance, which was done poorly.

Although with hospital provided insurance, even hitting our out of pocket max, my cost is still very low, which I am thankful for. Our hospital, a catholic based nonprofit, also sees everyone, and does its best not to charge those that cannot pay. In the winter a number of beds are filled with "sick" homeless. Great to have such a great organization around.

A focus on cost caps for equipment, supplies and pharma would go a long way to put us inline with other 1st world countries would go a long way to control costs. As said above, we are down the list in population, but #1 as a country in providing revenue to pharma and medical equipment companies. Whether out of pocket directly, higher premiums, or taxes frim medicare/caid, this needs to stop!

And as I said above, the U.S., even with high pay, is facing a shortage of doctors (and other medical providers) that is getting even worse. It is becoming a problem in hospitals, as professionals leave to less stressful jobs, which Covid has amplified. And again as stated above, we need to be careful before jumping into single payer without taking into account how that may effect our current doctor shortage and even more, which isn't talked about, is the number of quality physicians. You mention deaths from out broken cost system. Many more occur every day due to incompetent medical providers to a shocking degree.

Perhaps that includes covering tuition or other incentives, which is a different discussion with its own potential pitfalls.

I'm not against single payer, just very skeptical that our Congress will ever put in an effective system.
 
See my edit to the above post that I was likely making as you made your post. Agree something has to change, but facts are consistent. CDN wait times are double of ours. As said above, I'm all for limiting costs for pharma, medical equipment, etc. to the average of what other 1st world countries pay (or a similar metric). As another poster said in the past on here somewhere, we shouldn't subsidize the world's medical costs by paying "full price" for what the rest of the world limits. It would force these companies to demand more across the board instead of the U.S. covering the profits for these companies. Seems to be an "easy" first step.

We deal with similar stuff with my daughter who has CP, so I can relate. I'm just skeptical that our government would actually do a good job and lower costs. Every time they put something in to be a benefit or lower costs, costs go up!
Fully agree here. Our government doesn't know how to break out of the trap they've built themselves when it comes to healthcare. They are in a giant Chinese finger puzzle. And it's because we are so enamored with the "free market economy" **** and so so deep in big corporate pockets. Two things need to happen before we even have a chance at real change: we need to eliminate or greatly constrain professional lobbies, and we need to make our lawmaker's finances completely transparent.

Lobbyists wield far too much power in our government. This needs to be curtailed. Look at how strong the tobacco lobby was for a century. And look at the massive massive public outcry it took to break the stranglehold. Oil has the same lobbying power. We subsidize their profits! Not their expenses, that's fully covered as their profits are obscene. No the subsidies our government gives to oil companies go straight to the bottom line. This is patently ridiculous. Yeah this is not entirely driven by lobbying, but it's a big part of the legislative problem here.

And making lawmaker's full financial dealings fully transparent and public would make it much harder for under-the-table deals and what amounts to straight fraud. Like congressman taking their families on vacation on the public dime. Or taking large cash and asset considerations from corporate special-interest groups.

Until we break through this, nothing will change. And even then, they will find a way to bribe to support their interests, because let's face it, that's what this all is. Call it campaign contributions, or perks, or sweetheart deals, it's all a form of bribery and should be straight up illegal.
 
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See links referenced in prior post.
Ok sorry I missed those. I went back and read them. For the most part the only country appreciable worse than us is Canada. Interesting. Still with no standard to measure wait times you have to question the veracity.
 
Not every single payer system is socialist.

Canada has a Medicare for all system where each providence has a Medicare for all plan for its residents.

Germany has a system of nonprofit insurance companies that are highly regulated by their federal government.

The UK is a flat out socialist system where the majority of doctors and hospitals are employees of the state.

America’s health care costs equate to roughly 20 percent of our GDP while those other systems range between 9-13 percent of their GDP. in other words, America pays significantly more for a patchwork system of Medicare, medicaid, insurance that provides worse outcomes and doesn’t even cover all citizens.
 
What a horrible argument. If the surgery is urgent the risks of delaying it or skipping it are probably larger than the risk of getting a disease from your practitioner. It's still irresponsible for your practitioner to increase your risk in that fashion.


In the US in 2021, the vaccine is widely available, so this is not an issue today.


Who's freaked out?
Everybody is freaked out who states, that unvaccinated persons are life threatening to everybody else? Didn't you state above that unvaccinated doctor is threat to a patient. If he/she was not a threat in may 2020, then why is he now? And even if the team is fully asymptomatic COVID carriers then i still would be more worried (should i have the time that while being in a critical condition) about anesthesia mishap, than getting the COVID infection. Of course, the principle "trust the god but lock the car" still holds.

IMHO the hysteria and black-or-white attitude and hatred is causing already more (mental) damage, than the virus itself. A la statements "you should not visit grandparents, it is super dangerous" in 2020 spring and now the "those who are not vaccinated should be frown upon". Vaccines should be used as tools to prevent some pretty dangerous diseases but not as method whether i should accept somebody as trusted person or entry requirement in restaurant, air travel etc. Some of my Facebook friends sometimes post antivaxxer crap, but - that does not mean that i should develop some kind of hatred against them.
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Everybody is freaked out who states, that unvaccinated persons are life threatening to everybody else? Didn't you state above that unvaccinated doctor is threat to a patient. If he/she was not a threat in may 2020, then why is he now? And even if the team is fully asymptomatic COVID carriers then i still would be more worried (should i have the time that while being in a critical condition) about anesthesia mishap, than getting the COVID infection. Of course, the principle "trust the god but lock the car" still holds.

IMHO the hysteria and black-or-white attitude and hatred is causing already more (mental) damage, than the virus itself. A la statements "you should not visit grandparents, it is super dangerous" in 2020 spring and now the "those who are not vaccinated should be frown upon". Vaccines should be used as tools to prevent some pretty dangerous diseases but not as method whether i should accept somebody as trusted person or entry requirement in restaurant, air travel etc. Some of my Facebook friends sometimes post antivaxxer crap, but - that does not mean that i should develop some kind of hatred against them.
.
I agree. The same thing should apply to carrying a gun. Just because people have guns doesn't mean anyone is going to die. It shouldn't keep us out of restaurants or churches or off planes. Just the presence of a gun doesn't mean there is any threat. Same thing.
 
I agree. The same thing should apply to carrying a gun. Just because people have guns doesn't mean anyone is going to die. It shouldn't keep us out of restaurants or churches or off planes. Just the presence of a gun doesn't mean there is any threat. Same thing.
Comparing guns (tools meant to kill) to an unvaccinated but otherwise healthy person? Isn't you answer a perfect example what COVID has done? Turned a dangerous respiratory disease to a mental hysterical one?
 
Comparing guns (tools meant to kill) to an unvaccinated but otherwise healthy person? Isn't you answer a perfect example what COVID has done? Turned a dangerous respiratory disease to a mental hysterical one?
No it means you don't understand sarcasm.

However in a group you do not know 2 things: is the person next to you infected and contagious, and is someone nearby at risk since they maybe can't get the vaccine. So it's not far off of the gun analogy. When there is a disease that kills and there are people who can't get the vaccine then it's an unnecessary risk for others not to take the vaccine.
 
No it means you don't understand sarcasm.

However in a group you do not know 2 things: is the person next to you infected and contagious, and is someone nearby at risk since they maybe can't get the vaccine. So it's not far off of the gun analogy. When there is a disease that kills and there are people who can't get the vaccine then it's an unnecessary risk for others not to take the vaccine.
Well, for my eyes it was more like a mild rambling of an older person than i am than sarcasm.

And so what about not knowing whether somebody is infected or not (i say that in an empathic not arrogant tone)? I guess sooner or later we all got it in some form whether you are vaccinated or not.

I admit i have had some luck - only 3 times having somewhat close contact with an infected person; the closest one (both relative to relationship and distance) with my father (who around 2020 Christmas was already little bit sick with minor symptoms ) - 30 minutes together outside measuring and cutting wooden details. He did a test about 3 days later and my mom was also infected later. Both had minor symptoms and a week later mostly OK. Mom said something like that - thank god the nerve wrecking hiding and waiting time is over, hopefully the antibodies are good enough.

I am kind of worried about the trend to blame others of your health problems. Yes i might avoid COVID by taking all kind of precautions but then i decide to climb Mt Everest or even K2 in winter. Or drive a car. Or just behaving in general like somebody who has a "Florida man" syndrome. According to a lot of people climbing those mountains is not a health threat to them at all because of the celebrations they receive unlike those who decide not take a vaccine for whatever reason.

IMHO life should go on or sooner or later we are blaming and throwing rocks to somebody, because Kirk Douglas died while being so young.
 
Didn't you state above that unvaccinated doctor is threat to a patient.
I will try to be more clear about this. Every patient interaction (every interpersonal interaction, really) has risk of spreading infection, which is so many precautions are taken to mitigate risk. An unvaccinated doctor increases this risk.

If he/she was not a threat in may 2020, then why is he now?
I don't recall making a claim that providers were not a threat to spread covid19 in 2020. Could you point out what I said that gave you that impression? It would help me communicate my ideas more clearly.

Of course, the principle "trust the god but lock the car" still holds.
Exactly.

IMHO the hysteria and black-or-white attitude and hatred is causing already more (mental) damage, than the virus itself.
Perhaps, for personal reasons, I am too harsh on anti-vaxxers. Perhaps not.
 
Well, for my eyes it was more like a mild rambling of an older person than i am than sarcasm.

And so what about not knowing whether somebody is infected or not (i say that in an empathic not arrogant tone)? I guess sooner or later we all got it in some form whether you are vaccinated or not.

I admit i have had some luck - only 3 times having somewhat close contact with an infected person; the closest one (both relative to relationship and distance) with my father (who around 2020 Christmas was already little bit sick with minor symptoms ) - 30 minutes together outside measuring and cutting wooden details. He did a test about 3 days later and my mom was also infected later. Both had minor symptoms and a week later mostly OK. Mom said something like that - thank god the nerve wrecking hiding and waiting time is over, hopefully the antibodies are good enough.

I am kind of worried about the trend to blame others of your health problems. Yes i might avoid COVID by taking all kind of precautions but then i decide to climb Mt Everest or even K2 in winter. Or drive a car. Or just behaving in general like somebody who has a "Florida man" syndrome. According to a lot of people climbing those mountains is not a health threat to them at all because of the celebrations they receive unlike those who decide not take a vaccine for whatever reason.

IMHO life should go on or sooner or later we are blaming and throwing rocks to somebody, because Kirk Douglas died while being so young.
A 4-year-old who has a condition that makes him immunocompromised is not "blaming" anyone for his medical condition if there is concern of infection with COVID. People like this are the ones who need protecting from herd immunity.
 
Well, for my eyes it was more like a mild rambling of an older person than i am than sarcasm.

And so what about not knowing whether somebody is infected or not (i say that in an empathic not arrogant tone)? I guess sooner or later we all got it in some form whether you are vaccinated or not.

I admit i have had some luck - only 3 times having somewhat close contact with an infected person; the closest one (both relative to relationship and distance) with my father (who around 2020 Christmas was already little bit sick with minor symptoms ) - 30 minutes together outside measuring and cutting wooden details. He did a test about 3 days later and my mom was also infected later. Both had minor symptoms and a week later mostly OK. Mom said something like that - thank god the nerve wrecking hiding and waiting time is over, hopefully the antibodies are good enough.

I am kind of worried about the trend to blame others of your health problems. Yes i might avoid COVID by taking all kind of precautions but then i decide to climb Mt Everest or even K2 in winter. Or drive a car. Or just behaving in general like somebody who has a "Florida man" syndrome. According to a lot of people climbing those mountains is not a health threat to them at all because of the celebrations they receive unlike those who decide not take a vaccine for whatever reason.

IMHO life should go on or sooner or later we are blaming and throwing rocks to somebody, because Kirk Douglas died while being so young.
Sooner or later life will go on as usual. But it needs to happen in a way that minimizes the risk. In the course of human history, 5 years is nothing compared to 10,000 years of history. If it takes 5 years because that's how long it takes to figure out how to treat it effectively and also to vaccinate against it effectively, even if it's every year like a flu shot, then that is very reasonable.

The plague of Marseille lasted a minimum of 3 years, with far-reaching effects out to 8 years, and killed more than a million people. It finally was under control due to better hygiene, and frankly, killing off most of the susceptible people, which is horrible.

The Spanish flu lasted 2 years, with effects out to 10 years after the main push of the pandemic. It killed over 17 million people.

These are only 2 of the pandemics we have faced as a species. And with these we didn't have the technology or science to address them effectively.

Now we are in the middle of the COVID pandemic. It has killed 4.5 million worldwide. It isn't under control yet. But instead of focusing on reducing the death toll so many people worry about their freedom to go to spring break. It's ridiculous. We have the means to get this one under control much faster than the other great pandemics in our history, but the public resistance to the behaviors and actions that would best control it is exactly what will extend it and kill far more people than it needs to.
 
So has anyone here tested positive for SARS-CoV-2?? aka Covid-19?

I first had some symptoms the evening of Tuesday the 7th just your basic tired and achy feeling. Wed/Thu I had a temp of 100-101 nothing to crazy. Thursday night I had a little chest congestion and figured something was going on with the old lungs. Having Cystic Fibrosis (a lung disease) this was nothing out of the ordinary, probably just a little infection creeping in.. Decided to go to the doctor on Friday morning and got tested for Covid. They called an hour later and said I was posotive. They just told me to self isolate and go to the nearest ER if I had problems breathing.. I'm like ok? is that gonna be tomorrow? the next day? This is when the mental games kicked in. Called my CF specialist to let them know and get some advice. Just told me to do more treatments with albuterol and wait it out...

I've felt good since Thursday and got out of self isolation on Friday (17th). Overall as far as being sick, it wasn't bad. Main symptoms were just feeling like crap and a fever of 99-100 most days. I've been worse and way more miserable. This was 90% mental not knowing if the next day was the day I was going to end up in the ER.. :/ I see how this is spreading so fast now. It's kinda lucky I even went to the doctor and tested positive instead of continuing to spread it around.
 
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