Coronavirus

[LogGrad98]

See links referenced in prior post.

Ok sorry I missed those. I went back and read them. For the most part the only country appreciable worse than us is Canada. Interesting. Still with no standard to measure wait times you have to question the veracity.

 

[Deleted member 365]

Not every single payer system is socialist.

Canada has a Medicare for all system where each providence has a Medicare for all plan for its residents.

Germany has a system of nonprofit insurance companies that are highly regulated by their federal government.

The UK is a flat out socialist system where the majority of doctors and hospitals are employees of the state.

America’s health care costs equate to roughly 20 percent of our GDP while those other systems range between 9-13 percent of their GDP. in other words, America pays significantly more for a patchwork system of Medicare, medicaid, insurance that provides worse outcomes and doesn’t even cover all citizens.

 

[lauriandres]

What a horrible argument. If the surgery is urgent the risks of delaying it or skipping it are probably larger than the risk of getting a disease from your practitioner. It's still irresponsible for your practitioner to increase your risk in that fashion.


In the US in 2021, the vaccine is widely available, so this is not an issue today.


Who's freaked out?

Everybody is freaked out who states, that unvaccinated persons are life threatening to everybody else? Didn't you state above that unvaccinated doctor is threat to a patient. If he/she was not a threat in may 2020, then why is he now? And even if the team is fully asymptomatic COVID carriers then i still would be more worried (should i have the time that while being in a critical condition) about anesthesia mishap, than getting the COVID infection. Of course, the principle "trust the god but lock the car" still holds.

IMHO the hysteria and black-or-white attitude and hatred is causing already more (mental) damage, than the virus itself. A la statements "you should not visit grandparents, it is super dangerous" in 2020 spring and now the "those who are not vaccinated should be frown upon". Vaccines should be used as tools to prevent some pretty dangerous diseases but not as method whether i should accept somebody as trusted person or entry requirement in restaurant, air travel etc. Some of my Facebook friends sometimes post antivaxxer crap, but - that does not mean that i should develop some kind of hatred against them.
.

 

[LogGrad98]

Everybody is freaked out who states, that unvaccinated persons are life threatening to everybody else? Didn't you state above that unvaccinated doctor is threat to a patient. If he/she was not a threat in may 2020, then why is he now? And even if the team is fully asymptomatic COVID carriers then i still would be more worried (should i have the time that while being in a critical condition) about anesthesia mishap, than getting the COVID infection. Of course, the principle "trust the god but lock the car" still holds.

IMHO the hysteria and black-or-white attitude and hatred is causing already more (mental) damage, than the virus itself. A la statements "you should not visit grandparents, it is super dangerous" in 2020 spring and now the "those who are not vaccinated should be frown upon". Vaccines should be used as tools to prevent some pretty dangerous diseases but not as method whether i should accept somebody as trusted person or entry requirement in restaurant, air travel etc. Some of my Facebook friends sometimes post antivaxxer crap, but - that does not mean that i should develop some kind of hatred against them.
.

I agree. The same thing should apply to carrying a gun. Just because people have guns doesn't mean anyone is going to die. It shouldn't keep us out of restaurants or churches or off planes. Just the presence of a gun doesn't mean there is any threat. Same thing.

 

[lauriandres]

I agree. The same thing should apply to carrying a gun. Just because people have guns doesn't mean anyone is going to die. It shouldn't keep us out of restaurants or churches or off planes. Just the presence of a gun doesn't mean there is any threat. Same thing.

Comparing guns (tools meant to kill) to an unvaccinated but otherwise healthy person? Isn't you answer a perfect example what COVID has done? Turned a dangerous respiratory disease to a mental hysterical one?

 

[LogGrad98]

Comparing guns (tools meant to kill) to an unvaccinated but otherwise healthy person? Isn't you answer a perfect example what COVID has done? Turned a dangerous respiratory disease to a mental hysterical one?

No it means you don't understand sarcasm.

However in a group you do not know 2 things: is the person next to you infected and contagious, and is someone nearby at risk since they maybe can't get the vaccine. So it's not far off of the gun analogy. When there is a disease that kills and there are people who can't get the vaccine then it's an unnecessary risk for others not to take the vaccine.

 

[lauriandres]

No it means you don't understand sarcasm.

However in a group you do not know 2 things: is the person next to you infected and contagious, and is someone nearby at risk since they maybe can't get the vaccine. So it's not far off of the gun analogy. When there is a disease that kills and there are people who can't get the vaccine then it's an unnecessary risk for others not to take the vaccine.

Well, for my eyes it was more like a mild rambling of an older person than i am than sarcasm.

And so what about not knowing whether somebody is infected or not (i say that in an empathic not arrogant tone)? I guess sooner or later we all got it in some form whether you are vaccinated or not.

I admit i have had some luck - only 3 times having somewhat close contact with an infected person; the closest one (both relative to relationship and distance) with my father (who around 2020 Christmas was already little bit sick with minor symptoms ) - 30 minutes together outside measuring and cutting wooden details. He did a test about 3 days later and my mom was also infected later. Both had minor symptoms and a week later mostly OK. Mom said something like that - thank god the nerve wrecking hiding and waiting time is over, hopefully the antibodies are good enough.

I am kind of worried about the trend to blame others of your health problems. Yes i might avoid COVID by taking all kind of precautions but then i decide to climb Mt Everest or even K2 in winter. Or drive a car. Or just behaving in general like somebody who has a "Florida man" syndrome. According to a lot of people climbing those mountains is not a health threat to them at all because of the celebrations they receive unlike those who decide not take a vaccine for whatever reason.

IMHO life should go on or sooner or later we are blaming and throwing rocks to somebody, because Kirk Douglas died while being so young.

 

[Red]

A wife refuses to allow her husband to die of Covid, if she has any say…

After 169 hospitals, a dad finally got the Covid-19 care he needed -- and changed dozens of skeptics' minds

Just a few weeks ago, an unvaccinated father of six was on a ventilator with Covid-19 pneumonia in both lungs. What happened afterward stunned his family -- and may have spared countless other families from suffering.

www.cnn.com

 

[One Brow]

Didn't you state above that unvaccinated doctor is threat to a patient.

I will try to be more clear about this. Every patient interaction (every interpersonal interaction, really) has risk of spreading infection, which is so many precautions are taken to mitigate risk. An unvaccinated doctor increases this risk.

If he/she was not a threat in may 2020, then why is he now?

I don't recall making a claim that providers were not a threat to spread covid19 in 2020. Could you point out what I said that gave you that impression? It would help me communicate my ideas more clearly.

Of course, the principle "trust the god but lock the car" still holds.

Exactly.

IMHO the hysteria and black-or-white attitude and hatred is causing already more (mental) damage, than the virus itself.

Perhaps, for personal reasons, I am too harsh on anti-vaxxers. Perhaps not.

 

[LogGrad98]

Well, for my eyes it was more like a mild rambling of an older person than i am than sarcasm.

And so what about not knowing whether somebody is infected or not (i say that in an empathic not arrogant tone)? I guess sooner or later we all got it in some form whether you are vaccinated or not.

I admit i have had some luck - only 3 times having somewhat close contact with an infected person; the closest one (both relative to relationship and distance) with my father (who around 2020 Christmas was already little bit sick with minor symptoms ) - 30 minutes together outside measuring and cutting wooden details. He did a test about 3 days later and my mom was also infected later. Both had minor symptoms and a week later mostly OK. Mom said something like that - thank god the nerve wrecking hiding and waiting time is over, hopefully the antibodies are good enough.

I am kind of worried about the trend to blame others of your health problems. Yes i might avoid COVID by taking all kind of precautions but then i decide to climb Mt Everest or even K2 in winter. Or drive a car. Or just behaving in general like somebody who has a "Florida man" syndrome. According to a lot of people climbing those mountains is not a health threat to them at all because of the celebrations they receive unlike those who decide not take a vaccine for whatever reason.

IMHO life should go on or sooner or later we are blaming and throwing rocks to somebody, because Kirk Douglas died while being so young.

A 4-year-old who has a condition that makes him immunocompromised is not "blaming" anyone for his medical condition if there is concern of infection with COVID. People like this are the ones who need protecting from herd immunity.

 

[LogGrad98]

Well, for my eyes it was more like a mild rambling of an older person than i am than sarcasm.

And so what about not knowing whether somebody is infected or not (i say that in an empathic not arrogant tone)? I guess sooner or later we all got it in some form whether you are vaccinated or not.

I admit i have had some luck - only 3 times having somewhat close contact with an infected person; the closest one (both relative to relationship and distance) with my father (who around 2020 Christmas was already little bit sick with minor symptoms ) - 30 minutes together outside measuring and cutting wooden details. He did a test about 3 days later and my mom was also infected later. Both had minor symptoms and a week later mostly OK. Mom said something like that - thank god the nerve wrecking hiding and waiting time is over, hopefully the antibodies are good enough.

I am kind of worried about the trend to blame others of your health problems. Yes i might avoid COVID by taking all kind of precautions but then i decide to climb Mt Everest or even K2 in winter. Or drive a car. Or just behaving in general like somebody who has a "Florida man" syndrome. According to a lot of people climbing those mountains is not a health threat to them at all because of the celebrations they receive unlike those who decide not take a vaccine for whatever reason.

IMHO life should go on or sooner or later we are blaming and throwing rocks to somebody, because Kirk Douglas died while being so young.

Sooner or later life will go on as usual. But it needs to happen in a way that minimizes the risk. In the course of human history, 5 years is nothing compared to 10,000 years of history. If it takes 5 years because that's how long it takes to figure out how to treat it effectively and also to vaccinate against it effectively, even if it's every year like a flu shot, then that is very reasonable.

The plague of Marseille lasted a minimum of 3 years, with far-reaching effects out to 8 years, and killed more than a million people. It finally was under control due to better hygiene, and frankly, killing off most of the susceptible people, which is horrible.

The Spanish flu lasted 2 years, with effects out to 10 years after the main push of the pandemic. It killed over 17 million people.

These are only 2 of the pandemics we have faced as a species. And with these we didn't have the technology or science to address them effectively.

Now we are in the middle of the COVID pandemic. It has killed 4.5 million worldwide. It isn't under control yet. But instead of focusing on reducing the death toll so many people worry about their freedom to go to spring break. It's ridiculous. We have the means to get this one under control much faster than the other great pandemics in our history, but the public resistance to the behaviors and actions that would best control it is exactly what will extend it and kill far more people than it needs to.

 

[reignman40]

So has anyone here tested positive for SARS-CoV-2?? aka Covid-19?

I first had some symptoms the evening of Tuesday the 7th just your basic tired and achy feeling. Wed/Thu I had a temp of 100-101 nothing to crazy. Thursday night I had a little chest congestion and figured something was going on with the old lungs. Having Cystic Fibrosis (a lung disease) this was nothing out of the ordinary, probably just a little infection creeping in.. Decided to go to the doctor on Friday morning and got tested for Covid. They called an hour later and said I was posotive. They just told me to self isolate and go to the nearest ER if I had problems breathing.. I'm like ok? is that gonna be tomorrow? the next day? This is when the mental games kicked in. Called my CF specialist to let them know and get some advice. Just told me to do more treatments with albuterol and wait it out...

I've felt good since Thursday and got out of self isolation on Friday (17th). Overall as far as being sick, it wasn't bad. Main symptoms were just feeling like crap and a fever of 99-100 most days. I've been worse and way more miserable. This was 90% mental not knowing if the next day was the day I was going to end up in the ER.. :/ I see how this is spreading so fast now. It's kinda lucky I even went to the doctor and tested positive instead of continuing to spread it around.