Could the Jazz Milk Washington if The Ace Saga Sours?

[fishonjazz]

But we’re basically wasted a pick.

So. We would survive. Ace needs the money more than we need a single pick. We have had years without picks in the past.

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[fishonjazz]

Wasting a full year of tank is costly.

But it would help our tank for AJ. So it might actually benefit the jazz.
Would be way more costly for ace

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[fishonjazz]

Let's say the worst case scenario plays out (I still am skeptical - I think this is bluster from an untrained, unfiltered dolt of an agent)...

IF Ace's team told the Jazz "don't draft him, he won't come if you do..." and the Jazz still drafted him knowing full-well they were told he was not interested in playing for the Jazz, that's kind of on Utah for assuming they could then bully Ace into accepting a deal he clearly, and flatly told the Jazz, not to make.

True.
Should have taken Tre Johnson

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[fishonjazz]

This thread is depressing.

Post of the thread

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[fishonjazz]

No I'm serious, I don’t think we would care if an agent forced their player to Utah. We would clap our hands and celebrate. He didn’t want Utah and I still don’t care. I care as much as the FO does, which is none at all.

The stupid part was identifying Washington as the best situation—I think Philly would’ve been better. But the defensible action is trying to get your player to their preferred destination, whatever that is. Players want to be in certain places, and it’s the agent’s job to get them there. That’s what I mean by “doing right by his client.” Once you’ve identified a preferred situation (right or wrong), you should do everything you can to make it happen.

Cooper’s unique position as a fake agent allowed him to do more, and he certainly did that. You can keep talking past me, but this is my stance. Getting a player to a destination is the job of an agent.

Serious question. Have you ever changed your stance on something?

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[fishonjazz]

How can I put this simply. I’m obviously failing miserably, so maybe less words is best?

Omar Cooper = Bad

And

WAS/NOP/BKN as preferred destination = Bad

But

Trying to get player in preferred destination = Agent Job

Maybe the disagreement is that you think that getting a player to a specific destination is the agents ONLY job and other people think that getting a player to a specific destination is only PART of his job. Getting the player money and not destroying his reputation could be part of the agents job along with trying to get a player to a preferred destination? If true then the agent is only doing part of his job and messing up the other parts.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Maybe the disagreement is that you think that getting a player to a specific destination is the agents ONLY job and other people think that getting a player to a specific destination is only PART of his job. Getting the player money and not destroying his reputation could be part of the agents job along with trying to get a player to a preferred destination? If true then the agent is only doing part of his job and messing up the other parts.

Money from contract is only one part of the money they make.

 

[The Thriller]

I wish if a player decided to not report for an entire year and re-enter the draft, every team made it clear that they weren’t going to draft that player. That would end this threat immediately. The entire integrity of the draft is contingent on players playing for the teams they’re drafted by. If players can now dictate who can draft them, then the entire draft collapses.

I understand this type of stuff has happened in the past. Of course players have preferences for big markets and warm climates. But I’ve never heard of a guy legitimately considering sitting out a year and re-entering the draft. If this happens, the NBA needs to rethink the entire process. Otherwise, I’m not sure how small markets dig themselves out of these holes.

I’m also not sure the nba can afford this type of stunt. Aren’t tv ratings tanking across the board? Doubt this will help the NBA’s reputation.

 

[HermanG]

I wish if a player decided to not report for an entire year and re-enter the draft, every team made it clear that they weren’t going to draft that player. That would end this threat immediately. The entire integrity of the draft is contingent on players playing for the teams they’re drafted by. If players can now dictate who can draft them, then the entire draft collapses.

I understand this type of stuff has happened in the past. Of course players have preferences for big markets and warm climates. But I’ve never heard of a guy legitimately considering sitting out a year and re-entering the draft. If this happens, the NBA needs to rethink the entire process. Otherwise, I’m not sure how small markets dig themselves out of these holes.

I’m also not sure the nba can afford this type of stunt. Aren’t tv ratings tanking across the board? Doubt this will help the NBA’s reputation.

In order to be able to do that, Ace could not play professional basketball anywhere for the next year. Only that way he can re-enter the draft again after a holdout. If he signs a contract to play professionally anywhere, we will retain his NBA rights.

His stock would plummet for not playing for a year and he would lose a lot of money (tens of millions at the very least). I dont think Ace would ever do that, and I dont think his agent would ever recommend that.

 

[fishonjazz]

Money from contract is only one part of the money they make.

yep good point. Having a poor reputation probably hurts him a bit financially in endorsement deals and whatnot as well.
Hadn't even considered that these shenanigans could hurt his endorsement deals but you make a good point.

 

[fishonjazz]

I wish if a player decided to not report for an entire year and re-enter the draft, every team made it clear that they weren’t going to draft that player. That would end this threat immediately. The entire integrity of the draft is contingent on players playing for the teams they’re drafted by. If players can now dictate who can draft them, then the entire draft collapses.

I understand this type of stuff has happened in the past. Of course players have preferences for big markets and warm climates. But I’ve never heard of a guy legitimately considering sitting out a year and re-entering the draft. If this happens, the NBA needs to rethink the entire process. Otherwise, I’m not sure how small markets dig themselves out of these holes.

I’m also not sure the nba can afford this type of stunt. Aren’t tv ratings tanking across the board? Doubt this will help the NBA’s reputation.

I posted it earlier but it would be pretty funny if Ace sat out this upcoming year and entered the draft again next year and the jazz picked him again.
I mean it would suck for everyone involved if that happened but I would also have a chuckle about it.

 

[Flc]

By all accounts, he’s a really great and happy-go-lucky kid. His agent is turning him into an NBA villain - absolutely terrible for his brand and endorsements.

Think Donovan would have wrapped up a shoe deal if he was similar? No way.

Agent is really doing big harm, but it can be swept under the rug. That, of course, all changes if Ace doesn’t report.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

yep good point. Having a poor reputation probably hurts him a bit financially in endorsement deals and whatnot as well.
Hadn't even considered that these shenanigans could hurt his endorsement deals but you make a good point.

Don't be daft

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

By all accounts, he’s a really great and happy-go-lucky kid. His agent is turning him into an NBA villain - absolutely terrible for his brand and endorsements.

Think Donovan would have wrapped up a shoe deal if he was similar? No way.

Agent is really doing big harm, but it can be swept under the rug. That, of course, all changes if Ace doesn’t report.

No one is going to care if he can ball

 

[Flc]

No one is going to care if he can ball

No one’s going to see him ball if he doesn’t report.

 

[brooklynese]

Should have taken Tre Johnson

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yes

 

[The Midnight]

No one is going to care if he can ball

He can’t ball if he doesn't turn up… “brah”.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

No I'm serious, I don’t think we would care if an agent forced their player to Utah. We would clap our hands and celebrate. He didn’t want Utah and I still don’t care. I care as much as the FO does, which is none at all.

The stupid part was identifying Washington as the best situation—I think Philly would’ve been better. But the defensible action is trying to get your player to their preferred destination, whatever that is. Players want to be in certain places, and it’s the agent’s job to get them there. That’s what I mean by “doing right by his client.” Once you’ve identified a preferred situation (right or wrong), you should do everything you can to make it happen.

Cooper’s unique position as a fake agent allowed him to do more, and he certainly did that. You can keep talking past me, but this is my stance. Getting a player to a destination is the job of an agent.

You are way overthinking this.

 

[NAOS_pt2]

This is some dog whistle ****. Those charges were a billion years ago, most were dropped except the cocaine (who gives a ****), and he has spent the last several years running basketball teams for boys and girls, and getting them connected from high school to college basketball teams.

Sports media *loves* going after non-professional sports representation. Look at the ******** Lamar Jackson had to deal with. And it makes sense -- the whole construct/viability of agents is premised on conveying that you should just a professional to handle your business, not family or important mentors. Given the connections between agents and sports journalism, you can count on the journalism to absolutely **** on Ace Bailey for the next few days for daring to not giving a cut of his contract to agents who did nothing for him in contrast to what Omar Cooper has done.

I agree with @KqWIN -- this agent tried his very best to put his client in what was foreseen as the best situation (Washington). And guess what-- if we didn't have such a team menaces running our FO, they were gonna pull it off. Now there is a situation where folks are confirming that there is no trade up option, realizing that 'yes, Utah wants the kid and no, they're not gonna give him up for nothing', and it will conclude with Ace's appearance in summer league next week. This will all blow over, and have minimal bearing on Ace's prospects as a basketball player.

You can say all you want re: wanting to play in NOLA vs Utah. Everyone here is forgetting the ******** Donovan Mitchell had to navigate as a black star playing in Salt Lake City. A move to Utah for years, like we're talking 7 years, takes some adjustment, some time to ensure that there is no other alternatives. Players having this amount of power is tough for fans but ultimately best for the players, which frankly deserve any power they can command. They are the league.

- George

Lots to love in this post.

But I think there's an additional dimension to add here: inserting "family or important mentors" into key functional roles when they have no experience in that role AND, together as a team, trying to change the system yall are just entering........... If I bust out my Bayesian calculator on this scenario, it comes back with some pretty bad probabilities. If raising up your family and important mentors were some of your primary objectives, then the probabilities and rationality favored a different sequence of behaviors here.

In terms of Ace's professional trajectory, Utah should never have been seen as a bad place for him to land. The Jazz are not a dysfunctional program, and Ace's team should have seen that he has a good chance of being 'built around' in Utah. The wider local culture isn't great in some ways (no doubt about that; I myself no longer live there for a reason) but the area does love its team. And it isn't the same adjustment for everyone. The idea that Washington is a much juicier fit is just bananas.


Also, additional side note:
The cocaine stuff isn't a total shrug off for me. I'm a very drug-positive guy, and I've experimented with this drug a few times. —Experimented enough to know that it's one of my least favorite out there. And anyone who is using it while trying to maximize leverage in their business dealings is pretty much trying to be insufferable in my book. I'm not sure if that's what's going on here, and I'm sure this kind of thing is rampant in sports management anyway, but, yeah, it's not just a shrug off.

End rant.

 

[fishonjazz]

Don't be daft

Really though, you make a good point.
Im less likely to buy an Ace Bailey jersey if I think he hates utah and the jazz. So me knowing/believing that could in fact cost him some non contract money.