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Dear Fat People

Great read, Viny, up to and after this part:

"Your body knows how to do this all on its own just like it knows how to make your heart beat like it's supposed to -- you just have to quit sabotaging the metabolic mechanisms that have been with man for a couple hundred thousand years (and which we've only been trashing for the last 50 or so.)"

Which is nothing short of utter nonsense. Hunter-gatherers showed that the human body can exist healthily on a wide range of diets, some very extreme. Humanity has been subsisting largely on grains for the last 12,000 or so years. Most mid-evil diets were highly grain-based.
 
I think this guy is onto something. But it isn't just a no-carb diet. That is a fad and in the long run tough to maintain. But what he is onto is actually what has been preached at us since we were kids: a balanced diet. Fats, carbs, proteins all working together. We usually encounter health issues (over/under-weight, blood pressure, die-beetus, etc.) when our diet gets out of balance. Eat real foods, and a large variety of foods, and you can absorb the occasional chocolate cake or cheese cake or coke with dinner or whatever the case may be. I am a firm believer there is no magic bullet other than restraint and smart eating and upping your activity level. That is why I think Weight Watchers has consistently the best program out there if you have to have a program.

To go further into this, as frank pointed out our progenitors adapted to a wide variety of diets, but they also imbued in us as a protection mechanism the propensity to add weight (read: calories or energy) in times of plenty to help carry us through times of not-so-plenty. So basically the fat survived to mate over the tough winter, the skinny died and may have been a convenient meal, who knows. But the genetic makeup is generally one to add weight easily. And now, since for the vast majority of humans we live in a permanent time of plenty it is not strange at all that we tend toward the bigger side.

Add to that the fact that we put the most work into developing the infrastructure to produce the foods we needed and wanted. So go back 150-200 years and processed sugar was generally a luxury, and a cash crop, and grain was only available if you could farm it or trade for it, and nowhere near as easy to get and process as vegetables, which took all of picking it and eating it to get at the goods, and so these (grain, sugar, etc.) became the focus of agricultural advancement. Meaning they went from relatively expensive/rare to common and cheap, flipping places with vegetables from 150 years ago when everyone had a veggie garden and a root cellar or similar and could produce their own veggies, or someone else did we could trade with, or trade money for, so veggies tended to be cheap.

Now it is reversed, and providing fresh vegetables, which do not shelve well, is expensive. So our diet is largely a product of advancement and progress, and the world now generally eats cheaply. But what they eat tends to be a reduced variety compared to 150 years ago. And so our genes to add fat stores are doing their job as we reduce our own physical work loads or need to perform physical work, and add in cheap high-calorie-dense but low nutritionally-dense foods, and as a society we get fat.

So for the average American if they simply add variety to their diet and replace the staple fast food burger with something home made or replace potatoes with veggies, and eat real whole foods instead of processed foods, their weight will tend to normalize. Seriously if we as a nation just cut portion size and that was all we did we would collectively lose weight. Replace a few burgers a week with a tuna sandwich and carrot sticks and even more weight will drop. Find variety and whole foods in your diet again and you will become healthier, and without the need for special programs or protein shakes or anything else. Just grab a glass of water instead of a can of coke and some carrots instead of chips or fries once in a while and there you go, back on the road to a healthy weight.
 
Interesting discussion, everyone.

As someone involved in the nutrition industry, I tend to side with LogGrad here. It really comes down to a balanced diet, smart portions, and exercise. There's always a new fad diet, but I think you can't really go wrong with that simple advice.

As far as what can be done on the political/social scale to fix that problem? I'm still not sure. But I don't think public shaming of individuals is the answer.
 
I think this guy is onto something. But it isn't just a no-carb diet. That is a fad and in the long run tough to maintain. But what he is onto is actually what has been preached at us since we were kids: a balanced diet. Fats, carbs, proteins all working together. We usually encounter health issues (over/under-weight, blood pressure, die-beetus, etc.) when our diet gets out of balance. Eat real foods, and a large variety of foods, and you can absorb the occasional chocolate cake or cheese cake or coke with dinner or whatever the case may be. I am a firm believer there is no magic bullet other than restraint and smart eating and upping your activity level. That is why I think Weight Watchers has consistently the best program out there if you have to have a program.

To go further into this, as frank pointed out our progenitors adapted to a wide variety of diets, but they also imbued in us as a protection mechanism the propensity to add weight (read: calories or energy) in times of plenty to help carry us through times of not-so-plenty. So basically the fat survived to mate over the tough winter, the skinny died and may have been a convenient meal, who knows. But the genetic makeup is generally one to add weight easily. And now, since for the vast majority of humans we live in a permanent time of plenty it is not strange at all that we tend toward the bigger side.

Add to that the fact that we put the most work into developing the infrastructure to produce the foods we needed and wanted. So go back 150-200 years and processed sugar was generally a luxury, and a cash crop, and grain was only available if you could farm it or trade for it, and nowhere near as easy to get and process as vegetables, which took all of picking it and eating it to get at the goods, and so these (grain, sugar, etc.) became the focus of agricultural advancement. Meaning they went from relatively expensive/rare to common and cheap, flipping places with vegetables from 150 years ago when everyone had a veggie garden and a root cellar or similar and could produce their own veggies, or someone else did we could trade with, or trade money for, so veggies tended to be cheap.

Now it is reversed, and providing fresh vegetables, which do not shelve well, is expensive. So our diet is largely a product of advancement and progress, and the world now generally eats cheaply. But what they eat tends to be a reduced variety compared to 150 years ago. And so our genes to add fat stores are doing their job as we reduce our own physical work loads or need to perform physical work, and add in cheap high-calorie-dense but low nutritionally-dense foods, and as a society we get fat.

So for the average American if they simply add variety to their diet and replace the staple fast food burger with something home made or replace potatoes with veggies, and eat real whole foods instead of processed foods, their weight will tend to normalize. Seriously if we as a nation just cut portion size and that was all we did we would collectively lose weight. Replace a few burgers a week with a tuna sandwich and carrot sticks and even more weight will drop. Find variety and whole foods in your diet again and you will become healthier, and without the need for special programs or protein shakes or anything else. Just grab a glass of water instead of a can of coke and some carrots instead of chips or fries once in a while and there you go, back on the road to a healthy weight.

You're actually backwards on grains vs. fruits and vegetables. Civilizations were formed 10-12,000 years ago because of grain (and later legume) cultivation and have ever been since. It's a basic calculation of caloric needs and storage requirements. We needed a readily available supply of cheap calories to support expanding societies. You simply cannot eat enough vegetables to consume your daily intake requirements, and they don't keep anywhere near as well as grains (potatoes excepted for both). Fruit possibly could sustain you but it has a short shelf life.

I don't know much about cuisine 150-200 years ago, but if fruits and veggies became a higher % of diets it was because the population could afford a more expensive diet, not the other way around.
 
Well, the brewer in me wants to point out that it is VERY likely that the first cultivation of grain was used to make a sort of beer. The first types of beer would have been grains soaked in water, heated somewhat, then boiled, then aged and then consumed as a sort of porridge with an alcohol content around 1-2%. The brewing process both softened the grain to make it easier to eat and made it somewhat acidic as well as providing some alcohol. Both the acidity and alcohol helped to preserve it. Obviously the brewing process itself killed any pre-existing bacteria.

All the earliest writings of humans contain tons of talk about beer. Tons. More words for beer than the eskimos have for snow.

Here is a cuneiform word for beer.

cuniform-symbol-draft.jpg
 
Well, the brewer in me wants to point out that it is VERY likely that the first cultivation of grain was used to make a sort of beer. The first types of beer would have been grains soaked in water, heated somewhat, then boiled, then aged and then consumed as a sort of porridge with an alcohol content around 1-2%. The brewing process both softened the grain to make it easier to eat and made it somewhat acidic as well as providing some alcohol. Both the acidity and alcohol helped to preserve it. Obviously the brewing process itself killed any pre-existing bacteria.

All the earliest writings of humans contain tons of talk about beer. Tons. More words for beer than the eskimos have for snow.

Here is a cuneiform word for beer.

cuniform-symbol-draft.jpg

My initial response is that that was a byproduct that became a useful form of preservation centuries later. But, considering the brewer drinker in me, I could see it as the other way around.
 
My initial response is that that was a byproduct that became a useful form of preservation centuries later. But, considering the brewer drinker in me, I could see it as the other way around.

There is pretty conclusive evidence that beer was made millennia before bread.

So imagine this:

You're a nomadic human in a band of a dozen or two other people. You roam around killing the occasional animal, collecting the occasional fruit or vegetable. Things aren't bad, per se, your group has its **** together, knows where to be at what time of year, has a few spots prepped for next season, all that super advanced stuff. You guys are doing it right.

Then, one year, you collect some grain from your normal spot. You put it in some of the fanciest pots your tribe has. You hit your local cave and set up camp. Clouds collect and you all figure it's gonna rain. You put the pots put to collect some water and to soften your grain. Before the weather breaks another band comes along and pushes you out of one of your favorite caves. You move on. Before the end of the warm season you come back. You know where you stashed the grain and you come looking for it. There it is, only it tastes a bit off. You're all pretty damn hungry so you put it in a pot and boil it for a second. As the hot porridge goes around it's pretty clear the mood is lightening. Laughter, happiness, connection. As you all gorge yourselves on the porridge you start feeling a bit different.

Next year you set the pots of grain out on purpose and leave them for the summer. In the fall you return for the porridge party.

Next year you do it again, it's starting to get to be a thing.

Fast forward 100 years. There have been a few who have devoted themselves to making this special porridge. They can make it as long as they have grain and a fire.

Fast forward a couple more years, everyone decides they want special porridge all year long. They establish a permanent settlement and start growing grain.

Fast forward...modern civilization.
 
There is pretty conclusive evidence that beer was made millennia before bread.

So imagine this:

You're a nomadic human in a band of a dozen or two other people. You roam around killing the occasional animal, collecting the occasional fruit or vegetable. Things aren't bad, per se, your group has its **** together, knows where to be at what time of year, has a few spots prepped for next season, all that super advanced stuff. You guys are doing it right.

Then, one year, you collect some grain from your normal spot. You put it in some of the fanciest pots your tribe has. You hit your local cave and set up camp. Clouds collect and you all figure it's gonna rain. You put the pots put to collect some water and to soften your grain. Before the weather breaks another band comes along and pushes you out of one of your favorite caves. You move on. Before the end of the warm season you come back. You know where you stashed the grain and you come looking for it. There it is, only it tastes a bit off. You're all pretty damn hungry so you put it in a pot and boil it for a second. As the hot porridge goes around it's pretty clear the mood is lightening. Laughter, happiness, connection. As you all gorge yourselves on the porridge you start feeling a bit different.

Next year you set the pots of grain out on purpose and leave them for the summer. In the fall you return for the porridge party.

Next year you do it again, it's starting to get to be a thing.

Fast forward 100 years. There have been a few who have devoted themselves to making this special porridge. They can make it as long as they have grain and a fire.

Fast forward a couple more years, everyone decides they want special porridge all year long. They establish a permanent settlement and start growing grain.

Fast forward...modern civilization.

That definitely happened somewhere along the way. Thinking on the fly, my main thought is why were these nomads eating inedible grains in the first place? Did some cave lady declare her human right to be an animal and happen upon some hybrid weed that somehow contained enough nutrients to sustain her?

At some point they figured out how to breed crops for yield. I could see a drunk cave dude putting his best interest at heart to keep the buzz going.
 
https://www.montignac.com/en/the-history-of-man-s-eating-habits/

I was getting at some of the advances in modern farming and processing that brought processed foods very cheaply to the masses and reduced our general variety. White flour is now the staples, whereas whole grains were the staple just 150 years ago. Also processed sugar. Meats have actually been a decreasing part of our diets. Cheap white flour and cheap sugar drastically raised the percentage of said in our diet, thereby reducing drastically the variety that was inherent at other times in the past. The above is a pretty good summary of the progression of our diet, I thought. Worth a quick read.

The second phenomenon is the invention of the cylinder mill in 1870 which makes white flour available to one and all at reasonable prices. Since the time of the Egyptians, man has not ceased to seek the means to refine (sift) wheat varieties in order to produce white flour. At the time, wheat was coarsely sifted, the milling was simply passed through a strainer. This basically served to remove part of the bran which covered the wheat grains. Our ancestors’ whole bread was then no other than what is known today as hovis brown bread, in other words, semi-whole grain bread.
This sifting operation was long and costly, (done manually) making this bread a luxury available only to the privileged few who could afford it.

The invention of the cylinder mill at the end of the 19th century and its widespread use at the beginning of the 20th century radically changed the nature of flour. Its nutritional content was dramatically reduced to the point of becoming nothing more than starch. Precious proteins, fibers, essential fatty acids and other vitamin Bs were almost totally eliminated in the process.

The fact that flour suddenly began to be disregarded at a nutritional level, did not really constitute a mayor health problem for the richer sectors since they could compensate with an otherwise varied and balanced diet. For the underprivileged classes, however, for whom flour remained the basis of their diet, eating flour which had suddenly been deprived of all nutritional value could only tend to aggravate a diet which was already sorely lacking and unbalanced.

(and yeah it is skewed to favor their program, but mostly it is still a valid summary of the progression of processed foods)
 
Great read, Viny, up to and after this part:

"Your body knows how to do this all on its own just like it knows how to make your heart beat like it's supposed to -- you just have to quit sabotaging the metabolic mechanisms that have been with man for a couple hundred thousand years (and which we've only been trashing for the last 50 or so.)"

Which is nothing short of utter nonsense. Hunter-gatherers showed that the human body can exist healthily on a wide range of diets, some very extreme. Humanity has been subsisting largely on grains for the last 12,000 or so years. Most mid-evil diets were highly grain-based.

Franky, isn't comparing the foods during the times of the H-G'ers to today's food kind of like comparing apples to tire irons. I think if we took some of our food via a time machine back to those days one could argue that our sustenance would be wholly anachronistic...no? I'm have the understanding that most if not all the corn grown in the midwest is unedible off the stalk and that it needs to be "processed" in order to be eaten. Lady Moe, you know anything about this corn situation?
 
I think this guy is onto something.

Great post, Log. I think the important things are not only that your diet is balanced but that satiation is achieved and that an insulin reaction is avoided. In respect to losing and maintaining weight, diet is 80% of the battle.
 
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