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Even though Okur and Jefferson compliment each other with the inside outside game, I think Milsap might just be too good overall not to start. Okur will still get plenty of minutes with Al when Milsap rests. Milsap's ability to provide great help D outweighs Okur's 3 point game.

Jefferson(35) / Okur(13) / Fes (x)
Milsap (32) / Okur (16) / Evans (x)
AK (30) / Miles (10) / Hayward (8)
Bell (25) / Miles (15) / Hayward (8)
Williams (38) / Price (10) / Gaines (x)

x = no playing time unless injury or foul trouble
 
Even though Okur and Jefferson compliment each other with the inside outside game, I think Milsap might just be too good overall not to start. Okur will still get plenty of minutes with Al when Milsap rests. Milsap's ability to provide great help D outweighs Okur's 3 point game.

Jefferson(35) / Okur(13) / Fes (x)
Milsap (32) / Okur (16) / Evans (x)
AK (30) / Miles (10) / Hayward (8)
Bell (25) / Miles (15) / Hayward (8)
Williams (38) / Price (10) / Gaines (x)

x = no playing time unless injury or foul trouble

I don't see any glaring problems here. However, Okur will not be getting that many minutes until late Feb/early March. Fes will get time. AK will play minutes at PF.
 
Even though Okur and Jefferson compliment each other with the inside outside game, I think Milsap might just be too good overall not to start. Okur will still get plenty of minutes with Al when Milsap rests. Milsap's ability to provide great help D outweighs Okur's 3 point game.

Jefferson(35) / Okur(13) / Fes (x)
Milsap (32) / Okur (16) / Evans (x)
AK (30) / Miles (10) / Hayward (8)
Bell (25) / Miles (15) / Hayward (8)
Williams (38) / Price (10) / Gaines (x)

x = no playing time unless injury or foul trouble

That's pretty much along the lines of what I've been thinking. Whether you call Okur or Jefferson the C or PF when they're on the court together is immaterial. Okur will play on the perimeter and Jefferson will always play down low. Miles definitely plays some at both wing positions. Ideally, I'd like Hayward to develop fast and get 15-20 mins/per, but we know Sloan ain't gonna let that happen, not with Raja coming back (and after Bell kissed Sloan's *** with everything he said).

I could possibly see CJ starting at SF. That allows AK to be the "veteran" heading up the 2nd unit and for AK to initiate the offense when Deron comes out, taking the pressure off Price/Gaines. I had CJ starting at SG, but the more I think about it, the more I'm convinced Sloan will want the best defender on the opponent's starting 2 - and that means Raja.
 
Jefferson blocks some shots but he's not known as a defensive anchor. Gasol is taller, blocks more shots but making him start at center and getting a 6-8 PF alongside him isn't LA's formula for domination.

It sure worked for them when Bynum was injured (which was most of the time). Gasol went to first all star game playing C and was good enough of a defensive anchor to win West. Make no mistake: Gasol is very capable C, and he blocks EXACTLY as many shots as Jefferson in 35 mpg.

I'd like Jefferson to guard Gasol and a starting defensive center on Bynum, or vice versa. But as it is, it's going to be Jefferson on Bynum, Millsap on Gasol -- how's that going to work out? Fes is big but doesn't really know how to play basketball. He's okay as a back-up or 3rd stringer but against LA, a situational sub won't do because those towers are the 'situation' all game long.

LA is tough because they got two 7 footers up front. Anyone will have a problem with that. With that said, they beat us pretty much every time with Gasol and Odom, since Bynum is always injured. Against Gasol and Odom, I think Jefferson and Millsap have a MUCH better chance than Booz/Millsap/Okur combination. And through in Fess too on occasion. Previously with Booz and Memo on the floor, Odom was reaping us new one. With Booz/Millsap, Gasol was the one reaping Booz apart. And with Memo/Paul, we are just not talented enough. Now Jefferson (who is bigger than Booz and plays bigger than his size) will defend Gasol, and Millsap will defend Odom. That's much better. And offensively Gasol will not be able to rest anymore, he will have to really bang inside with Al (Odom cannot even guard Al, even though he could guard Booz). Does LA still have advantage up front. Perhaps, but much less so than before.

Fes is big but doesn't really know how to play basketball. He's okay as a back-up or 3rd stringer but against LA, a situational sub won't do because those towers are the 'situation' all game long.

Well, we never played against healthy Bynum, and LA beats us every year. So I don't know how it will be. If Bynum/Gasol are both healthy, it will be tough against any team. No one else has 2 7 footers with as much skill. On the defensive end though these guys will have work to do.

Even if Karl could've blocked that super 1.6 blocks a game, you still wouldn't have started him at C and gotten a Malik Rose-type as starting PF. Just like Malone, the Jazz must maximize Jefferson's potential as a good-sized PF and get him a defensive center. If KOC doesn't get that starting defensive center, he would have had a good but incomplete offseason. If KOC does get that, I bet we all rejoice and dream big.

There is a reason why Karl didn't block that many shots and Al does. Al is a Center/Forward, and Karl is a PF. And of course I would like to have prime Mutombo over Millsap, but Deke was perennial all star/defensive team selection. If we just get some average player who can defend and block shots, like Haywood, is it really better than having a PF like Millsap, who can probably close to 20-10 as a starter? I don't think so. And by the, way did you see contract size of 31 year old Haywood, that he just signed? I will take Millsap and his contract any time.
 
It sure worked for them when Bynum was injured (which was most of the time). Gasol went to first all star game playing C and was good enough of a defensive anchor to win West. Make no mistake: Gasol is very capable C, and he blocks EXACTLY as many shots as Jefferson in 35 mpg.

Last season Bynum was injured a number of times but he started 65 times at center, which means Gasol started at C 17 times. So obviously you're wrong that it was 'most of the time'.

LA is tough because they got two 7 footers up front. Anyone will have a problem with that. With that said, they beat us pretty much every time with Gasol and Odom, since Bynum is always injured. ....

The strategy that Bynum will be injured when we play them is the same strategy that hopefully the Jazz never meet the Lakers in the playoffs on the way to a title. But yep, Gasol + Odom have also been bad for the Jazz -- and that won't change much if we just go with a 6-10 C and 6-8 PF. But maybe Odom or Gasol would be injured too?

There is a reason why Karl didn't block that many shots and Al does. Al is a Center/Forward, and Karl is a PF.

About that, you don't remember Malone doing the centerly things in the small line-up? The Jazz often went with that on stretches. Karl just wasn't a shot-blocker as he was more of a ball-slapper.

If we just get some average player who can defend and block shots, like Haywood, is it really better than having a PF like Millsap, who can probably close to 20-10 as a starter? I don't think so. And by the, way did you see contract size of 31 year old Haywood, that he just signed? I will take Millsap and his contract any time.

That's the crux of it really. There are those like you who would prefer a 6-8 PF and make Jefferson play as a 6-10 C like in Minnesota. That is just not going to get it done at the elite level if we have learned anything from playing the Lakers since they got Gasol.

Again, Jefferson would be great as our 6-10 PF but he'll need a 6-11 or better starting defensive center. I really like Millsap but he'll have to come off the bench as PF again and, as Deron's the only untouchable, is also a possible trade chip for a starting defensive center.
 
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Last season Bynum was injured a number of times but he started 65 times at center, which means Gasol started at C 17 times. So obviously you're wrong that it was 'most of the time'.

Yes, when Bynum is healthy, he plays C, since that's the only position he can play, but Gasol had significant games at C over last 3 years (17, 32, 27), plus he played a lot of C even with Bynum was starting, since he Andrew logged only 30 mins there, and Gasol picked up the rest. And Pau made 2 all NBA teams and 2 all star appearances, playing significant time at C. Also, he helped lead the team to a title and Finals in play-offs playing C. Over past 3 seasons Gasol played C a lot, and did it extremely well. If you have examples of how he sucked at C playing significant minutes there over the past 3 years, in spite of his team accomplishments (2 titles, 3 finals) or personal accomplishments (great stats, 2 all nba teams, 2 all star teams), go ahead provide these. Otherwise just admit that LA sure benefited from having a guy play center, who is not a defensive shot blocker, but 20-10 all around great player, who can block about 1.6 shots in 35 mins. You know, someone like we have in Jefferson.

The strategy that Bynum will be injured when we play them is the same strategy that hopefully the Jazz never meet the Lakers in the playoffs on the way to a title. But yep, Gasol + Odom have also been bad for the Jazz -- and that won't change much if we just go with a 6-10 C and 6-8 PF. But maybe Odom or Gasol would be injured too?

Bynum not being 100% is not a strategy, it is just a very realistic expectation based on history. If he is not injured, I already said, it is a tough match up for anyone in the League. Odom and Gasol are unlikely to get injured. That's why I have described in detail to you why we are so much better off with Al+Millsap against them, than before. I am still waiting for you response on that.

That's the crux of it really. There are those like you who would prefer a 6-8 PF and make Jefferson play as a 6-10 C like in Minnesota. That is just not going to get it done at the elite level if we have learned anything from playing the Lakers since they got Gasol.

Well, Al did get 23 and 10, 1.7 blocks, when starting at C a year ago. I don't think Minnesota's poor showing was because of him. I already showed you how a non defensive 20-10 center, who can block some shots, did amazing in LA. Yes, is he 7 feet tall, and Jefferson is only 6-10. But I already told you, Mutombo in his prime is not going to come here. The best teams can do on this is get someone much less talented than Jefferson (or Millsap) and already on the decline, like Chandler or Haywood, and pay them huge money. I would prefer 7 mil/year Millsap, who already proved he is 18-11 guy at PF, plus 20-10 center who can block some shots too. Denver has no problems with Nene at C. They actually did better as a team when they got rid of defensive center in Camby. And Jefferson is WAY more talented than Nene, and is a better inside presence/shot blocker.

Again, Jefferson would be great as our 6-10 PF but he'll need a 6-11 or better starting defensive center. I really like Millsap but he'll have to come off the bench as PF again and, as Deron's the only untouchable, is also a possible trade chip for a starting defensive center.

Having Millsap come of the bench is a waste of his talent. The guy is a proven 18-11 player as a starter, and can even get better than that. That's why Booz and Millsap did not work: they play exactly the same position and were our #2 and #3 guys. Now, we with Al, we have the luxury of having our #2 and #3 guys both play 35 minutes, and not be a liability together. I would like that more than giving Millsap away for someone like Chandler, and paying Chandler huge money and suffer a downgrade in talent, just because he is "defensive center".
 
He said. - This gives 3 shooters and a low post scorer and Deron the ability to really run an offense -

So 3 shooters Deron and AL. It really looks like he called AK a shooter.

This is correct, I did. However, I meant three true scorers. Having three perimeter scorers (2 shooters and 1 slasher/scorer) is a HUGE help in keeping the floor spread.
Having said that, I'm a Jazz newbie and don't have the empirical data/knowledge of the Jazz team as 99% of those on this board.
 
Another possibility is:

PG - DWill, Price, Gaines (would prefer Lin here)
SG - Bell, Hayward (IF he can do a better job defending here than CJ), Jeffers
SF - CJ, AK, Hayward, Evans
PF - Millsap, AK, Jefferson, Davidson (Jermareo is 6'10" and looked good in Orlando; he'll be 26 in November). Probably cheaper than Ratliff
C - Jefferson, Okur, Fesenko
 
Don't get why people want AK off the bench, when it is obvious from last year that he is much better as a starter.
 
w/o Okur

DWill/Price/Gaines
CJ/Bell/Honz
AK/CJ/Honz/Evans
Sap/AK/AJ/Evans
AJ/Fes/Sap


w/ Okur

DWill/Price/Gaines
CJ/Bell/Honz
AK/CJ/Honz/Evans
AJ/Sap/AK
Okur/AJ/Fes


The line-up of DWill, Bell, AK, Sap, and Jefferson will finish games!
 
w/o Okur

DWill/Price/Gaines
CJ/Bell/Honz
AK/CJ/Honz/Evans
Sap/AK/AJ/Evans
AJ/Fes/Sap


w/ Okur

DWill/Price/Gaines
CJ/Bell/Honz
AK/CJ/Honz/Evans
AJ/Sap/AK
Okur/AJ/Fes


The line-up of DWill, Bell, AK, Sap, and Jefferson will finish games!

Wow, a post by many symbols guy that isn't ridiculous.

However, I'd put Jefferson as the primary PF backup without Okur instead of Kirilenko. I think Sloan is going to work Jefferson a lot of minutes in a lineup without Okur. 38-40 isn't unreasonable in my mind.
 
Dwill/Price/Gaines
Bell/Hayward/Jeffers
CJ/AK/Evans
Milsap/AK
Jefferson/Okur/Fes

And I agree with Dwill/Bell/AK/Sap/Jefferson ending games with Miles and AK switching places every so often.
 
PG - Williams / Price / Gaines
SG - Miles / Bell / Hayward
SF - AK / Miles / Hayward
PF - Milsap / AK / Jefferson / Okur
C - Jefferson / Okur / Fes

Though, I'd be interested to see what it'd be like with:

PG - Williams / Price / Gaines
SG - Miles / Bell / Hayward
SF - AK / Miles / Hayward
PF - Jefferson / Millsap / AK / Okur
C - Okur / Jefferson / Fes
 
The problem with AK not on the 2nd unit, their passing tends to fall apart, and he's a way better distributor of the ball than Gaines or Price. That's the main reason we could use another PG.
Now if Hayward develops quickly and can play the role of playmaker on the 2nd unit, we may well see AK starting and CJ with the 2nd unit.
 
I personally would like to see this depth chart:

PG: Deron Williams, Ronnie Price, Sundiata Gaines
SG: C.J. Miles, Raja Bell, Othyus Jeffers
SF: Andrei Kirilenko, Gordon Hayward
PF: Paul Millsap, Mehmet Okur, Jeremy Evans
C: Al Jefferson, Kyrylo Fesenko
 
This is correct, I did. However, I meant three true scorers. Having three perimeter scorers (2 shooters and 1 slasher/scorer) is a HUGE help in keeping the floor spread.
Having said that, I'm a Jazz newbie and don't have the empirical data/knowledge of the Jazz team as 99% of those on this board.

That's cool. I agree the lineup is not bad. I just would not in any sense call AK a "shooter".
 
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