DL and Quin Snyder Rift

[//r00t 4 Jazz]

With the person in the tweet being from BOS, it wouldn't surprise me if it is just the Ainge connection that is the driving factor to this rumor. I mean it wouldn't surprise me with the changes in the Texas teams if DL wanted to go back to HOU or SA or even DAL (no previous association). I do not want Ainge in any major roll with Utah but Battier would be cool like some title just under GM.

The players LOVE Quin or everything seems to say they do so I doubt he's going anywhere, IMO.

Reading peoples opinions in here is as frustrating as watching the Jazz lose 4 straight and why I haven't been on as much. It's like reading what every poster who bitches a lot saying the same thing they have been wanting or complaining about for 3yrs now. While there is valid points to many or most it isn't as bad as it is made out to be in all the bitching.

Conley even with his injuries was BY FAR the best player in that deal, given his age, injury history and salary I agree the Jazz should've been able to give less than they did but it is NOT nearly as bad as people make it sound. NONE of the picks or players given up will be as good as Conley and outside of Crowder none will be much more then 7th or 8th in the rotation on a good team. Crowder had to be given to make the money work and so MEM could trade him for more assets. Which is why or where I believe the Jazz could've given one less pick since MEM was going to flip him. Trading for Conley was a win now move and that is that.

DL is not the GM he's President of Basketball Operations, yes I know everyone knows that it just bugs me that when bitching about getting the details and little things right he's still called the GM when Zanick is the GM. That is just a me thing.

DL has won awards and Quin is regarded as a top 5 HC in the league but I do think if it is decided changes are made that DL would be the one to move on from.

The bitching about not getting certain players again some validity but way too one sided. Batum the Jazz did go after him, Rudy reached out to him but he wanted/chose LAC shouldn't be a surprise most players would chose living in LA and playing with Leonard. Not getting Craig, yeah that sucks but who's to say he wanted to come here, we don't know either way but Jazz could've shown interest and with things being equal he/agent told MIL he'd rather go to PHX than Utah. Heck just see the Morris twins comments about Utah to show some players just don't like, don't fit or don't want to come here.

Lastly any rookie that didn't get picked (like Bane or McDaniels or whoever) yes again there's validity and I get it but I also know that the likely hood that any of them would've gotten minutes is slim to none so it's hard to get too worked up.

 

[LogGrad98]

With the person in the tweet being from BOS, it wouldn't surprise me if it is just the Ainge connection that is the driving factor to this rumor. I mean it wouldn't surprise me with the changes in the Texas teams if DL wanted to go back to HOU or SA or even DAL (no previous association). I do not want Ainge in any major roll with Utah but Battier would be cool like some title just under GM.

The players LOVE Quin or everything seems to say they do so I doubt he's going anywhere, IMO.

Reading peoples opinions in here is as frustrating as watching the Jazz lose 4 straight and why I haven't been on as much. It's like reading what every poster who bitches a lot saying the same thing they have been wanting or complaining about for 3yrs now. While there is valid points to many or most it isn't as bad as it is made out to be in all the bitching.

Conley even with his injuries was BY FAR the best player in that deal, given his age, injury history and salary I agree the Jazz should've been able to give less than they did but it is NOT nearly as bad as people make it sound. NONE of the picks or players given up will be as good as Conley and outside of Crowder none will be much more then 7th or 8th in the rotation on a good team. Crowder had to be given to make the money work and so MEM could trade him for more assets. Which is why or where I believe the Jazz could've given one less pick since MEM was going to flip him. Trading for Conley was a win now move and that is that.

DL is not the GM he's President of Basketball Operations, yes I know everyone knows that it just bugs me that when bitching about getting the details and little things right he's still called the GM when Zanick is the GM. That is just a me thing.

DL has won awards and Quin is regarded as a top 5 HC in the league but I do think if it is decided changes are made that DL would be the one to move on from.

The bitching about not getting certain players again some validity but way too one sided. Batum the Jazz did go after him, Rudy reached out to him but he wanted/chose LAC shouldn't be a surprise most players would chose living in LA and playing with Leonard. Not getting Craig, yeah that sucks but who's to say he wanted to come here, we don't know either way but Jazz could've shown interest and with things being equal he/agent told MIL he'd rather go to PHX than Utah. Heck just see the Morris twins comments about Utah to show some players just don't like, don't fit or don't want to come here.

Lastly any rookie that didn't get picked (like Bane or McDaniels or whoever) yes again there's validity and I get it but I also know that the likely hood that any of them would've gotten minutes is slim to none so it's hard to get too worked up.

1) no one is disputing that Mike was the best player in that deal. What most are saying is it was entirely the wrong deal for the wrong kind of player, and the overpay was real, especially considering his injury history which, guess what, cost us advancing in the playoffs largely. Bad deal for us. Not hard to see.

2) DL may not have the title of GM but he's the one in all the press conferences and it's clear he's the one managing everything. He has his hands in everything so the criticism is valid.

3) if we had drafted someone like bane and he didn't see the floor that is on the coach and yet another reason we need a change. Quin did nothing to try to counter the clippers, and by skipping a player like bane in the draft DL didn't provide the personnel to try anyway. I think they both need to go.

I know people have said, who else is out there, there is no one better. But right now different might just be the better that we need. Because what we've been doing obviously isn't working, and we are knocking on the door of crazy if we roll it all back knowing that for 3 seasons we didn't address our primary issues.

 

[//r00t 4 Jazz]

1) no one is disputing that Mike was the best player in that deal. What most are saying is it was entirely the wrong deal for the wrong kind of player, and the overpay was real, especially considering his injury history which, guess what, cost us advancing in the playoffs largely. Bad deal for us. Not hard to see.

2) DL may not have the title of GM but he's the one in all the press conferences and it's clear he's the one managing everything. He has his hands in everything so the criticism is valid.

3) if we had drafted someone like bane and he didn't see the floor that is on the coach and yet another reason we need a change. Quin did nothing to try to counter the clippers, and by skipping a player like bane in the draft DL didn't provide the personnel to try anyway. I think they both need to go.

I know people have said, who else is out there, there is no one better. But right now different might just be the better that we need. Because what we've been doing obviously isn't working, and we are knocking on the door of crazy if we roll it all back knowing that for 3 seasons we didn't address our primary issues.

Typing that resurfaced all that anger and disappointment, which was the very point of me taking a break from consuming most anything sports related.

I agreed Conley was an over pay just not as bad as it is made out to be, which is a criticism of DL for sure. The slight or marginal overpay in FA's and trades, given a FA 1-2mil per year more again small so not too bad but I get those add up, same for the trade that extra 1st round pick that will likely end up being in the late 20's. That player statistically will likely not make it past their rookie contract and if they do will be end of the bench (again statistically).

There is plenty of blame to go around, DL, Zanick, Quin to the players. Every. Single. Player.

I feel overall the team just lost that chemistry and connectivity and trust they had built as a team and it just had a ripple effect to just about every mistake or miscue. LAC play a role in that for sure but the Jazz didn't regain or hold on to that belief they had in each other mentally that lead to physical mistakes. On offense over dribbling, making a pass but not the extra pass, breakign the paint but not passing out to the open 3pt shooter and forcing a poor layp, missing Gobert in the paint, Gobert not being in the right position in the paint and P&R.

I could go on and on and hadn't even got to the defensive rotations yet but it's the same thing not trusting the rotations and the players/teammates to make those rotations (game 6 Ingles, Conley not helping Rudy causing Rudy to hesitate on what to do).

With the Jazz I think that effects them even more than other teams with their lack of perimeter length and athleticism they really rely heavier on that team D concept ... anyway...

I'm gonna go back to being pissed all weekend now.....

 

[Ineptimusprime]

Here’s the thing — DL definitely needs to go, and Quin may need to go. But DL didn’t give Quin the roster flexibility for us to even be able to fairly judge whether or not Quin needs to go.

 

[jom2003]

Like how everyone calling G6 an absolute embarrassment even though G6 wasn't all that much different from G1 in which Clippers blew a 20point lead with Kawhi on the floor. Curious to see no one bitching about Quin's coaching in that game.

Look, no one wanna see the Jazz lose the way they did. But Quin gotta deserve some credit for taking the Jazz to where they were in the first place.

Like how everyone here saying we can't do worse by replacing Quin. Come one now. We finished as the number one seed and led 2:0 against the Clippers team that is arguably one of the leagues biggest title contenders without our starting point guard and our best player playing on one leg. We can do A LOT WORSE than that with a different coach in charge.

 

[fishonjazz]

Like how everyone calling G6 an absolute embarrassment even though G6 wasn't all that much different from G1 in which Clippers blew a 20point lead with Kawhi on the floor. Curious to see no one bitching about Quin's coaching in that game.

Look, no one wanna see the Jazz lose the way they did. But Quin gotta deserve some credit for taking the Jazz to where they were in the first place.

Like how everyone here saying we can't do worse by replacing Quin. Come one now. We finished as the number one seed and led 2:0 against the Clippers team that is arguably one of the leagues biggest title contenders without our starting point guard and our best player playing on one leg. We can do A LOT WORSE than that with a different coach in charge.

Was there a specific different look that the jazz threw at the clippers in game 1 that they were getting killed by and that they made no adjustment too at all? Was it the same different look that had been thrown at them in 3 recent previous playoff series and they failed to have any kind of gameplan for?

Ya apples to oranges

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[jom2003]

Was there a specific different look that the jazz threw at the clippers in game 1 that they were getting killed by and that they made no adjustment too at all? Was it the same different look that had been thrown at them in 3 recent previous playoff series and they failed to have any kind of gameplan for?

Ya apples to oranges

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app

If by "different looks" you mean Ersan, Brantley, Doke or Hughes, I don't know what else to tell ya.

I bet if Quin didn't play Niang a single minutes in that clippers series, JFZ would have gone wild. "NO NIANG??? WTF WAS QUIN THINKING???"

But cuz he did play so now JFZ is mad on Quin for playing him.
"PLAYING NIANG??? WTF WAS QUIN THINKING. !!!"

 

[LogGrad98]

If by "different looks" you mean Ersan, Brantley, Doke or Hughes, I don't know what else to tell ya.

I bet if Quin didn't play Niang a single minutes in that clippers series, JFZ would have gone wild. "NO NIANG??? WTF WAS QUIN THINKING???"

But cuz he did play so now JFZ is mad on Quin for playing him.
"PLAYING NIANG??? WTF WAS QUIN THINKING. !!!"

That's just asinine. He played niang and we found out he was unplayable. That's the knowledge he needed to pivot away. But he kept playing niang instead of trying anyone else. Just like he kept expecting Rudy to both guard the paint and close out on a very hot outside shooter. When it was obvious that wasn't working he should have tried something else. He didn't. He doubled down instead of letting anyone else see the floor to find out what they could do. That's poor game and personnel management.

 

[jom2003]

That's just asinine. He played niang and we found out he was unplayable. That's the knowledge he needed to pivot away. But he kept playing niang instead of trying anyone else. Just like he kept expecting Rudy to both guard the paint and close out on a very hot outside shooter. When it was obvious that wasn't working he should have tried something else. He didn't. He doubled down instead of letting anyone else see the floor to find out what they could do. That's poor game and personnel management.

"Double down" is a very accurate word to use here cuz you keep saying Quin should've tried something different. But what "different" things do guys like Ersan, Hughes, Doke, Morgan or Thomas bring onto the table exactly? If anything, they only bring us the lesser version of Rudy, Niang, Favs, Bogey or JC which got us killed in the first place.

By "something different" it means athleticism, physicality, switchability, perimeter defense. And none of those are given by the players that you mentioned. "Know your personnel" is the key here. It's like picking two bottles of poison. You know you gonna die either way, so Quin gave up. I know it looked bad. But at least the man had a point here. In the end, its still DL’s double-down strategy that deserves the blame here.

 

[Ujfanatic]

"Double down" is a very accurate word to use here cuz you keep saying Quin should've tried something different. But what "different" things do guys like Ersan, Hughes, Doke, Morgan or Thomas bring onto the table exactly? If anything, they only bring us the lesser version of Rudy, Niang, Favs, Bogey or JC which got us killed in the first place.

By "something different" it means athleticism, physicality, switchability, perimeter defense. And none of those are given by the players that you mentioned. "Know your personnel" is the key here. It's like picking two bottles of poison. You know you gonna die either way, so Quin gave up. I know it looked bad. But at least the man had a point here. In the end, its still DL’s double-down strategy that deserves the blame here.

I disagree. If nothing else, Quin hung his center out to dry. Take him out, put someone else in, switch up the assignments, play more zone, try trapping the ball, do something. Playing possum doesn’t work.

 

[LogGrad98]

"Double down" is a very accurate word to use here cuz you keep saying Quin should've tried something different. But what "different" things do guys like Ersan, Hughes, Doke, Morgan or Thomas bring onto the table exactly? If anything, they only bring us the lesser version of Rudy, Niang, Favs, Bogey or JC which got us killed in the first place.

By "something different" it means athleticism, physicality, switchability, perimeter defense. And none of those are given by the players that you mentioned. "Know your personnel" is the key here. It's like picking two bottles of poison. You know you gonna die either way, so Quin gave up. I know it looked bad. But at least the man had a point here. In the end, its still DL’s double-down strategy that deserves the blame here.

Well we "thought" we knew what we had in niang, then he became completely unplayable. Maybe by playing someone else for just 5 minutes of the 100 minutes we completely sucked in they would show you something else. Brantley is more athletic than Niang. He might have been able to at least bother Mann. Ersan has playoff experience, he might bring a different look that is just disruptive enough to get an edge for a bit. But the thing is he didn't even give any of these guys just 5 minutes here or there. No one is saying that we had Michael Jordan on the bench and QS left him there, but the fact that he didn't try anything else at all is ridiculous. If you aren't going to try to see what they can give you then why sign any of them? How could 3-5 minutes of Ersan be worse than allowing a 25 point lead to evaporate and watching Rudy flail around because he just couldn't do it all. At least give him a break and give them a different look. You don't know unless you try, so now we still don't know because they didn't try.

 

[jom2003]

I disagree. If nothing else, Quin hung his center out to dry. Take him out, put someone else in, switch up the assignments, play more zone, try trapping the ball, do something. Playing possum doesn’t work.

i mean it's real easy to point the finger at the coach when we lose a game. After all, any gameplan that resulted in a L is a bad one. If Quin subbed in Favs or Ersan and the Jazz still lost, then people would instead criticize Quin for making bad/unnecessary adjustment and not trusting his star center that costed us the game.

In fact, that's exactly what Andy Larsen said in G4.