Does Lauri Get Traded?

[fishonjazz]

If you think there cannot be enough value to the Jazz without Podz (which is what I think your stance is) that's one thing. It makes it difficult for another reason. But if not, putting Podz in the deal means subtracting something else. If Podz is worth more to the Warriors than the Jazz, the amount taken out of the deal will be too much for the Jazz to accept.

Pretty simple. Jazz say podz and all the picks. That's it.
Warriors cant be like "how about take podz out and put this other stuff in his place?"

Nope. Pay the asking price or dont.

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[Elizah Huge]

Death, taxes, and KqWIN arguing some weird ****.

 

[KqWIN]

Who says something has to be subtracted. Who says there is even a pile of stuff that is agreed upon to subtract from. We have the player. We want him to stay. He wants to stay. Here is our price...

Like I said, if your stance is that there can be no substitutions whatsoever, it's difficult for different reasons. We already talked about those difficult, mainly being that it's a **** ton of stuff, so no need to rehash that. People seem to be really upset by the act of discussing a topic on a discussion forum. So I will refrain. I do think you could potentially get that value elsewhere with Kuminga (perhaps in a 3 teamer if we don't like him), but don't want to open up a discussion that will make people mad because we discuss it.

If the inclusion of Podz means substitution, then can you agree that it makes things very difficult sense? I mean, at a base level this is what every deal is. The Warriors won't trade for Lauri if they don't want him more than us. Every asset in the deal is going to be evaluated this way. There are some assets that mean more to UTA than GSW, those are the pieces that make most sense in the deal.

You can also apply the same "he means more to them than us" with Lauri. He means a lot to us... if he can help GS compete for one more title as Steph rides into the sunset he may mean more to them.

This is precisely my point. If Lauri means more to us, then I would also say no deal with GSW makes sense. Whether that is true or not, that is a much larger consideration and we'll find out with time. If there is a trade, I can definitely say that Warriors did not want him more than us and the opposite is true if no deal is made. It's always going to be troubling when trying to trade for a player who is valued more by his current team than you. You can be over the moon for a player, but if it's less than his current team, probably not gonna happen.

 

[MT Steve]

I don't know why this has to be explained, but the decision on whether or not to trade is based largely on "Do we want what they're offering more than what we're giving up", not "Is this individual part of the whole trade package more valuable to us or to them"

 

[KqWIN]

I think we're conflating two things right now. One the notion that there cannot exist a deal that is good enough without Podz. For example, Mood+JK+All the picks. If that is not enough, than sure....Podz is the only thing that can push the value further. Like I said, that's a different complication. God bless you all, and here's to a great tank with Lauri.

What I'm saying is that if it is possible to get a deal done without Podz, it will be done without him because he's more valuable to GSW than UTA. For me, there exists a deal that does not include Podz which is enough to say yes. And in that scenario, it would not make sense to further substitute out compensation to include Podz.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Like I said, if your stance is that there can be no substitutions whatsoever, it's difficult for different reasons. We already talked about those difficult, mainly being that it's a **** ton of stuff, so no need to rehash that. People seem to be really upset by the act of discussing a topic on a discussion forum. So I will refrain. I do think you could potentially get that value elsewhere with Kuminga (perhaps in a 3 teamer if we don't like him), but don't want to open up a discussion that will make people mad because we discuss it.

If the inclusion of Podz means substitution, then can you agree that it makes things very difficult sense? I mean, at a base level this is what every deal is. The Warriors won't trade for Lauri if they don't want him more than us. Every asset in the deal is going to be evaluated this way. There are some assets that mean more to UTA than GSW, those are the pieces that make most sense in the deal.



This is precisely my point. If Lauri means more to us, then I would also say no deal with GSW makes sense. Whether that is true or not, that is a much larger consideration and we'll find out with time. If there is a trade, I can definitely say that Warriors did not want him more than us and the opposite is true if no deal is made. It's always going to be troubling when trying to trade for a player who is valued more by his current team than you. You can be over the moon for a player, but if it's less than his current team, probably not gonna happen.

I mean sure if our price is Podz and picks and they can get something good for Kuminga (they likely can't based on reporting) then sure we'd consider it. Its just weird the idea that if Podz is in the deal there has to be subtraction... its just not true. The reported stances are Jazz want JK, Podz, Moody and all teh picks... Warriors want Lauri for all teh picks and moody (I think Shams said it... if not someone has said it). The "deal zone" is in between that... but I doubt we compromise on the picks and podz. If that is insane to you and the Warriors... then fine we walk. There are legit two paths here unlike with Donovan.

 

[KqWIN]

I mean sure if our price is Podz and picks and they can get something good for Kuminga (they likely can't based on reporting) then sure we'd consider it. Its just weird the idea that if Podz is in the deal there has to be subtraction... its just not true. The reported stances are Jazz want JK, Podz, Moody and all teh picks... Warriors want Lauri for all teh picks and moody (I think Shams said it... if not someone has said it). The "deal zone" is in between that... but I doubt we compromise on the picks and podz. If that is insane to you and the Warriors... then fine we walk. There are legit two paths here unlike with Donovan.

I think we're conflating two things right now. One the notion that there cannot exist a deal that is good enough without Podz. For example, Mood+JK+All the picks. If that is not enough, than sure....Podz is the only thing that can push the value further. Like I said, that's a different complication. God bless you all, and here's to a great tank with Lauri.

What I'm saying is that if it is possible to get a deal done without Podz, it will be done without him because he's more valuable to GSW than UTA. For me, there exists a deal that does not include Podz which is enough to say yes. And in that scenario, it would not make sense to further substitute out compensation to include Podz.

FYI, the actual latest report is Podz+all picks (Moody not mentioned, JK specifically mentioned as not in the deal). This is from Shams mouth directly.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

FYI, the actual latest report is Podz+all picks (Moody not mentioned, JK specifically mentioned as not in the deal). This is from Shams mouth directly.

I guess my stance is this... Podz and the picks are non-negotiable in an acceptable deal. They have no "substitute" I see as acceptable and based on some of the pod reporting it seems JK's market would be pretty limited.

KD was traded for 4 firsts, 3 swaps, a player that is worth 5 firsts and a swap, and Cam Johnson... that's a comp I'd point to as well. Not that Lauri is worth the same as KD but just to show that to get the "guy" you may need to overpay. I just don't see Podz, 3 first, 3 super swaps, and a regular swap as an insane overpay. Its a premium... for a premium player. If they don't want to do it they should go fish in cheaper ponds.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Kqwin is a true innovator when it comes to arguing. As a noted contrarian, I'm impressed.

 

[KqWIN]

I guess my stance is this... Podz and the picks are non-negotiable in an acceptable deal. They have no "substitute" I see as acceptable and based on some of the pod reporting it seems JK's market would be pretty limited.

KD was traded for 4 firsts, 3 swaps, a player that is worth 5 firsts and a swap, and Cam Johnson... that's a comp I'd point to as well. Not that Lauri is worth the same as KD but just to show that to get the "guy" you may need to overpay. I just don't see Podz, 3 first, 3 super swaps, and a regular swap as an insane overpay. Its a premium... for a premium player. If they don't want to do it they should go fish in cheaper ponds.

Your hard stance on "Lauri is worth this much, we want him" doesn't really contradict with my earlier statement, does it. If we're talking about a substitution scenario, I don't think it makes sense because GSW would want to take out more than UTA would allow. That should be simple enough to understand. Podz inclusion would lead to no deal. But if we take your stance where there exists no deal valuable enough without Podz (i.e Moody + Kuminga is not more valuable than Podz)....I would say the complication is that the GSW is just unlikely to do that. That also leads to no deal. I think it stands to reason that the higher the cost, the less likely a deal is going to happen. Like you said, if they don't want to do it they should fish in cheaper ponds. If Podz is part of the proposed deal in addition to all the pics and that cannot be compromised, they will do exactly that. Both roads lead to the same place.

 

[bigmike]

If we get a young player as a cornerstone piece in a GSW deal it has to be Kuminga.

Podz + some picks but not “all the picks” is a hard pass for me.

Kuminga is, at minimum, a 10+ year plus starter with fantastic two-way potential. If the shooting clicks in he has All Star/All-NBA potential.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Kuminga is more of a Rorshach test than a good basketball player.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Your hard stance on "Lauri is worth this much, we want him" doesn't really contradict with my earlier statement, does it. If we're talking about a substitution scenario, I don't think it makes sense because GSW would want to take out more than UTA would allow. That should be simple enough to understand. Podz inclusion would lead to no deal. But if we take your stance where there exists no deal valuable enough without Podz (i.e Moody + Kuminga is not more valuable than Podz)....I would say the complication is that the GSW is just unlikely to do that. That also leads to no deal. I think it stands to reason that the higher the cost, the less likely a deal is going to happen. Like you said, if they don't want to do it they should fish in cheaper ponds. If Podz is part of the proposed deal in addition to all the pics and that cannot be compromised, they will do exactly that. Both roads lead to the same place.

I've said from pretty much the jump I'd only do a deal another team probably shouldn't do. Yes that makes it unlikely. shrug.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Kuminga is more of a Rorshach test than a good basketball player.

Is that why when I look at him I only see @Hearsky 's mom's boobs?

 

[KqWIN]

Kuminga is more of a Rorshach test than a good basketball player.

I can see why he’s polarizing, still a very young and developing player. But I do think you have to give him credit for what he already is. If he doesn’t improve at all, he was still a good player on a good team.

The guy I really want in any scenario is Moody. This is especially true if the Lauri trade goes down and GSW still has Kuminga. They won’t pay everyone. Even if GSW caves and gives up all picks + Podz….I would be willing to drop whatever pick compensation for Moody. I think he will come at a good price.

I think Moody is great, true analytics darling.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Kuminga is more of a Rorshach test than a good basketball player.

I honestly have no idea about Kuminga.

 

[Hearsky]

Is that why when I look at him I only see @Hearsky 's mom's boobs?

My mom's boobs hang to her knees, my short king.

 

[fishonjazz]

Kqwin is a true innovator when it comes to arguing. As a noted contrarian, I'm impressed.

Lol

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[kcgar]

I think we're conflating two things right now. One the notion that there cannot exist a deal that is good enough without Podz. For example, Mood+JK+All the picks. If that is not enough, than sure....Podz is the only thing that can push the value further. Like I said, that's a different complication. God bless you all, and here's to a great tank with Lauri.

What I'm saying is that if it is possible to get a deal done without Podz, it will be done without him because he's more valuable to GSW than UTA. For me, there exists a deal that does not include Podz which is enough to say yes. And in that scenario, it would not make sense to further substitute out compensation to include Podz.

What is going on here? You are over-arguing something very very simple. If GS wants Lauri, then they meet the demand set by Jazz. Period. As Cy said, GS is the buyer and Jazz are the seller and the seller has ALL the leverage. I don’t think anybody can explain it any clearer.

 

[KqWIN]

What is going on here? You are over-arguing something very very simple. If GS wants Lauri, then they meet the demand set by Jazz. Period. As Cy said, GS is the buyer and Jazz are the seller and the seller has ALL the leverage. I don’t think anybody can explain it any clearer.

Yeah, you're conflating two things exactly as I said in my post. You're talking about the first thing I mentioned. Both end up in the same result, which is no trade.