Does Lauri Get Traded?

[Fosto]

In some cases I still think it applies. For example, Collins is probably better off offensively being the only big whereas defense he should not be the lone big. But with JK, it doesn’t really matter. Whether you think he’s a 3 or 4 offensively (whatever that means), he guards both so how is that a tweener?

Small ball centers are a common thing now, though. Collins is just not a good defender. I think tweener means "in between positions", which really doesn't fit with how the modern game evolved. Tweeners are dime a dozen now, and the game is becoming more and more positionless.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Comparing JK to JC at 21 is a flattering comparison to JK because JC had a lot of value at 21. You seem to be comparing them at 21 based on production, but then the trade value of JK at 21 vs JC at 26. That doesn’t make sense.

I don't care much about trade value... it makes perfect sense. Go back to when John Collins was 21 and the Hawks move him rather than extend him... they likely do quite well. Once they extended him and he didn't scale/improve and his warts were more pronounced... his value was "nothing". I'm not arguing his trade value... I'm arguing whether I would want him or what I could get for him in a trade.

Position labels are arbitrary, two players can be “wings” or “bigs” or whatever label you want and play completely differently. I struggle to understand the “tweener” label because JK can guard multiple positions and guys bigger and smaller than him. 6’8 super athlete is highly valued archetype. Since he’s able to guard multiple positions, it doesn’t make sense to call him a tweener. If offensively you think he’s strictly and off ball player that doesn’t handle the ball are do guard things, he can also defend that position. It just so happens to be the case that he can guard other positions. Unless you think he is literally a C only on offense, I cant see how he’s a tweener.

Because he's not a great defender and on offense if he isn't good with the ball and playing like a wing then you have a shooting issue. He Is much more a 4 than a wing.

And you are the guy who is constantly like "meh who cares about length and athleticism if you don't do anything with it". What are the highly valued things he is doing with his immense tools?

As far as what does letting him cook mean…it’s obvious. He’s already doing some with the ball in his hands, driving and passing. What people see in him is the ability to do even more of that because he has had some success with it and shown flashes. You act as if this guy has never bounced a ball or made a pass in his life.

I understand he does some stuff with the ball in his hand... how good is he at it? You act as if I called him trash. Havig the ball in your hand carries a very high threshold of greatness. Showing some flashes is great. If you think he has that potential then great. That's what I am asking. I don't see him as a tremendous on ball guy on a good team. If I am acting like he's never bounced a ball you are acting like GS didn't need someone with that exact skill set and for some reason was holding him back.

He has more juice with the ball than Collins for sure. Is it enough to justify "letting him cook". Like are there iso numbers that support some promise there?

 

[KqWIN]

Small ball centers are a common thing now, though. Collins is just not a good defender. I think tweener means "in between positions", which really doesn't fit with how the modern game evolved. Tweeners are dime a dozen now, and the game is becoming more and more positionless.

Tweener can mean a lot of things….Im just saying there’s a mismatch in JC’s ideal offensive and defensive roles which makes it difficult to fit him into lineups. But for the most part I agree with you.

When it comes to Kuminga, he embodies the position less spirit well. Capable of defending multiple different kinds of players and doing different things on offense.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Small ball centers are a common thing now, though. Collins is just not a good defender. I think tweener means "in between positions", which really doesn't fit with how the modern game evolved. Tweeners are dime a dozen now, and the game is becoming more and more positionless.

Tweener to me means not great enough at wing stuff or big stuff to create advantages and on defense you can be in between positions. Collins too slow to guard wings but not big enough to protect the rim. If you don't want to talk positions then talk skill sets. What does his skill set bring to the table? What roles does he fill at an elite level?

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Why did LAC trade Shai? Why did SAC trade Hali?

You would probably be saying the same stuff about Lauri if we went back 2 years and were discussing him as part of the Don package before it happened.

Lol... you want to talk weird comparisons. SGA and Hali I knew exactly what they were and would happily pay them and try to get them. Both guys had like 2-3 years left on their rookie deal. I am not saying don't get good young players. I am saying JK should not be valued like some budding star... and if he is I would recycle him. If he is valued properly in the trade then go ahead and take a flyer. If someone else wants to take that bet they can if they want to pay us.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Like... give me the comp for what you think Kuminga is at his reasonable ceiling? I have some thoughts but I can poke holes in my own comps too easily.

 

[Coach Ellis]

Like... give me the comp for what you think Kuminga is at his reasonable ceiling? I have some thoughts but I can poke holes in my own comps too easily.

Harrison Barnes, maybe?

I’m not necessarily a big JK fan, I just want all the assets we can get to cripple them while we own their draft.

 

[KqWIN]

I don't care much about trade value... it makes perfect sense. Go back to when John Collins was 21 and the Hawks move him rather than extend him... they likely do quite well. Once they extended him and he didn't scale/improve and his warts were more pronounced... his value was "nothing". I'm not arguing his trade value... I'm arguing whether I would want him or what I could get for him in a trade.

Because he's not a great defender and on offense if he isn't good with the ball and playing like a wing then you have a shooting issue. He Is much more a 4 than a wing.

And you are the guy who is constantly like "meh who cares about length and athleticism if you don't do anything with it". What are the highly valued things he is doing with his immense tools?

I understand he does some stuff with the ball in his hand... how good is he at it? You act as if I called him trash. Havig the ball in your hand carries a very high threshold of greatness. Showing some flashes is great. If you think he has that potential then great. That's what I am asking. I don't see him as a tremendous on ball guy on a good team. If I am acting like he's never bounced a ball you are acting like GS didn't need someone with that exact skill set and for some reason was holding him back.

He has more juice with the ball than Collins for sure. Is it enough to justify "letting him cook". Like are there iso numbers that support some promise there?

We can both agree then that JC’s value was high, just as JK’s value is high. If JK does not improve it’s also agree GSW would regret trading him. If you project JC’s development arc onto anyone the decision to trade him at 21 is always going to look better. I wouldn’t say every 21 develops like JC though.

The numbers would say he’s a good defender and I’d also agree he’s a good defender. Also, being a bad defender does not automatically make you a tweener, it just makes him a bad defender. He does not put up big BLK/STL/REB numbers. In spite of that he looks good in metrics like EPM. The numbers certainly indicate that he’s doing something on defense with that length beyond the box score, and watching him I get the same impression. The argument against him would be what?

He has good ball handling and passing for a guy with his size+athleticism. Anyone with that combo of skill+athleticism is going to make you wonder if he can do more. What he can’t do well is spot up for 3’s, putting the ball in his hands is a natural solution to that. I don’t want to be the “just watch him play” guy, but I do think it applies with JK. Feel free to disagree, but I think it shows. You’re not going to find the proof of concept for him on a paper if he’s not given the opportunity in the first place, but his synergy numbers in both isolations and PnR ball handler are really solid.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Harrison Barnes, maybe?

I’m not necessarily a big JK fan, I just want all the assets we can get to cripple them while we own their draft.

Harrison Barnes was a ballhandling wing at NC. People talked about him like he was a Kobe type.

As far as NBA role is concerned, I still don’t think the ball chops or pure shooting ability are particularly close.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Harrison Barnes, maybe?

I’m not necessarily a big JK fan, I just want all the assets we can get to cripple them while we own their draft.

I think its Pascal but his motor doesn't run as hot and I'm not sure he will be that level of playmaker.

 

[silesian]

The volatility in player value is astounding.

3 years ago Lauri was valued at a first, a second, and a guy.

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And 2 years ago, Donovan was dancing on the golf course when he heard how little the Cavs had to give up

“Per Windhorst, Mitchell proceeded to excitedly run around, celebrating the news that he had not only been traded to Cleveland, but that the Cavs were able to keep Darius Garland, Jarrett Allen, Evan Mobley and Kevin Love when making the deal.”

 

[NUMBERICA]

The volatility in player value is astounding.

3 years ago Lauri was valued at a first, a second, and a guy.

Home

Home Page

www.nbcsportschicago.com

And 2 years ago, Donovan was dancing on the golf course when he heard how little the Cavs had to give up

“Per Windhorst, Mitchell proceeded to excitedly run around, celebrating the news that he had not only been traded to Cleveland, but that the Cavs were able to keep Darius Garland, Jarrett Allen, Evan Mobley and Kevin Love when making the deal.”

I couldn’t figure out why nobody wanted Lauri three years ago. The headline that the Bulls “made out like bandits” is ASTOUNDING to me.