Donald Fires FBI Director who's investigating Russian Election Hacking

[Red]

I know what Red's beliefs are, and a little of the why. I have tried to encourage him not to just believe whatever is in print. I see him try to make his points in a substantial way. I don't mind talking to him, though we have pretty different views.

It was good investigative journalism that told Americans Trump asked Comey if he would pledge loyalty to him. Investigative journalism that revealed Trump, not illegally, but quite improperly, asked Comey if he, Trump, was under investigation himself. It was good Investigative journalism with good sources that revealed Trump revealed the highest level of classified intel to the Russians, intel that endangers the life of an Israeli agent embedded deeply within ISIS. Good investigative journalists that revealed and had read to them a contemporaneous memo making note of the fact that Trump asked Comey to drop any investigation of Flynn, the one revelation that, more then any other, has led to the appointment of a Special Council. Which Council, BTW, can still be fired by Trump, so hold your breath, Trump haters.

There is a good old fashion newspaper war going on between the Post and Times, and it is generating excellent journalism. Yet, despite it all, it is Trump himself, in choosing to fire Comey, that has put Trump in the position he now finds himself. There is no point suggesting I not pay attention to or believe what I am reading. It's all very real, maybe all too real, and at the same time, your own description of Trump, beginning with your characterization of him in previous threads, as being such a people-loving compassionate human being, that strikes me as more fantasy then fact. Of course we cannot see eye to eye, and I doubt we ever will. I can appreciate your sentiment of wanting to help me understand things from your perspective, but I really do find that perspective to be off the deep end nuts.

So, I will continue to depend on journals like the Washington Post and New York Times for information, and dismiss wholeheartedly the notion that Trump and his clueless base subscribe to that such news outlets represent "fake news". Of course his base believes that. But, so much of his base are simply brainwashed followers of a cult of personality. I prefer referencing thinking people, educated people, who recognize a bulls**ting demagogue when they see one.

 

[Jonah]

Good points all around, Red. The New York Times and the Washington Post have been consistently producing important and necessary investigative journalism for years. The inability to separate their neoliberal editorial policies (with which I routinely disagree) from their news stories is shallow news consumption. Ignoring our two most consistently excellent sources of investigative journalism leads to a narrow and cloistered view of the world.

 

[Stoked]

I think the media is frothing at the mouth to get rid of the President. They are intentionally playing up anything possible. Literally anything.

But that does not mean that there is not a clear need for an investigation. I am quite pleased with Mueller being named the prosecutor. He has proven he can and will stand up to a WH when needed. He stood up to Bush in 2004 over an NSA program. Along with Comey. He also has a fairly broad authority to investigate and go anywhere it takes him (from what I understand). This is something I wanted for quite a while. It will hopefully reveal the truth and then we can all move on.

But all this talk from some Ds about impeachment is nothing more than political point scoring with their base. We don't truly know that much yet and calls for any definitive action like that are dramatically premature.

 

[Harambe]

It's babe. Par for the course.

This.

May be a titch more than babeness right now. Blame the liberal media.

 

[Harambe]

if you believe in notes. i got some notes from god himself, that says you should pay me 500 bucks a month.
sorry no audio recording

I'm sure you do. You're not an FBI agent. Nor could you be construed as "ethical" when trying to post something on the internet.

FBI notes and memos have held up in court historically.

 

[Harambe]

I think the media is frothing at the mouth to get rid of the President. They are intentionally playing up anything possible. Literally anything.

The media's gonna snatch up anything they can. They did with the birtherism nonsense, the Clinton scandal, the Clinton Email scandal... the list goes on. The absolute hottest thing right now is Trump's bat **** insanity. Closely following; Inadequacy for the job of President, levels of implied corruption. The three hottest stories right now revolve around the guy and his cabinet. As it sits, you can't expect them not to peck at the VERY large, VERY heavy fruit that is now sitting at ground level.

But is it ethical to hound at this level?

Do you think it wise to form a journalistic ethics probe into the top five or so media agencies?

 

[Stoked]

The media's gonna snatch up anything they can. They did with the birtherism nonsense, the Clinton scandal, the Clinton Email scandal... the list goes on. The absolute hottest thing right now is Trump's bat **** insanity. Closely following; Inadequacy for the job of President, levels of implied corruption. The three hottest stories right now revolve around the guy and his cabinet. As it sits, you can't expect them not to peck at the VERY large, VERY heavy fruit that is now sitting at ground level.

But is it ethical to hound at this level?

Do you think it wise to form a journalistic ethics probe into the top five or so media agencies?

There was a CNN report about how much ice cream Trump ate in comparison to the reporters that happened to be with him.

Yes it's the media and they have been doing it for years and years but it's gotten ridiculous. There is a difference between crap like that and talking about the special investigator and the Russian/trump connections. Obviously that needs to be talked about but it feels, to me at least, that the media is in danger of jumping the shark.

One can have this view of the media and still feel that there are real problems with the Presidency. I am glad it is being investigated.

 

[DutchJazzer]

There was a CNN report about how much ice cream Trump ate in comparison to the reporters that happened to be with him.

Yes it's the media and they have been doing it for years and years but it's gotten ridiculous. There is a difference between crap like that and talking about the special investigator and the Russian/trump connections. Obviously that needs to be talked about but it feels, to me at least, that the media is in danger of jumping the shark.

One can have this view of the media and still feel that there are real problems with the Presidency. I am glad it is being investigated.

jumping the shark is subjective to the viewer!
seriously every single show has been accused by part of the base for jumping the shark at 1 moment or another!

as you stated to you it feels they are in danger of jumping the shark, but for a lot of people they jumped the shark long ago! would not say the majority. but somewhere near half the people

 

[Jonah]

I think the media is frothing at the mouth to get rid of the President. They are intentionally playing up anything possible. Literally anything.

But that does not mean that there is not a clear need for an investigation. I am quite pleased with Mueller being named the prosecutor. He has proven he can and will stand up to a WH when needed. He stood up to Bush in 2004 over an NSA program. Along with Comey. He also has a fairly broad authority to investigate and go anywhere it takes him (from what I understand). This is something I wanted for quite a while. It will hopefully reveal the truth and then we can all move on.

But all this talk from some Ds about impeachment is nothing more than political point scoring with their base. We don't truly know that much yet and calls for any definitive action like that are dramatically premature.

Any possibility of impeachment is a long way off, in both probative and political terms, so we’re in for posturing from both sides for months if not a year or more.

BTW, I’m fine with a special prosecutor, but the idea that this will get at the truth and enable us to move on is not an accurate representation of the special prosecutor’s job, which is to narrow the investigation to possible criminal conduct. A bipartisan independent commission is necessary to get at the full truth. Here's a nice article from David Frum, an established long-time conservative, on the limitations of a special prosecutor:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/05/a-special-prosecutor-is-not-the-answer/526662/

 

[Stoked]

Any possibility of impeachment is a long way off, in both probative and political terms, so we’re in for posturing from both sides for months if not a year or more.

BTW, I’m fine with a special prosecutor, but the idea that this will get at the truth and enable us to move on is not an accurate representation of the special prosecutor’s job, which is to narrow the investigation to possible criminal conduct. A bipartisan independent commission is necessary to get at the full truth. Here's a nice article from David Frum, an established long-time conservative, on the limitations of a special prosecutor:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/05/a-special-prosecutor-is-not-the-answer/526662/

What I expect from the special prosecutor is a presentation of the facts. If that leads to impeachment or criminal prosecution than so be it.

I don't feel that a commission is needed at this time. Keep in mind that the congressional hearings will still go forward. I think the Comey briefing could be huge one way or the other.

Personally I am enjoying chaotic inferno that the two parties have become. Hopefully this turns off millions of voters. A pipe dream I'm sure but one I am clinging to lol

 

[Zombie]

I think the media is frothing at the mouth to get rid of the President. They are intentionally playing up anything possible. Literally anything.

I guess that's one way of looking at it. On the other hand, this is shaping up to be the biggest political scandal in US history. It could be that the media hates Trump and wants to damage him, or they could just be doing, you know, their jobs.

Let's get a little perspective here. Yesterday's news that the Trump team was aware of an active FBI investigation into Mike Flynns foreign entanglements when they made the decision to make him NSA would have been the biggest scandal of his presidency if it had been done by Obama.

It was like the third biggest news story yesterday.

 

[Stoked]

I guess that's one way of looking at it. On the other hand, this is shaping up to be the biggest political scandal in US history. It could be that the media hates Trump and wants to damage him, or they could just be doing, you know, their jobs.

Let's get a little perspective here. Yesterday's news that the Trump team was aware of an active FBI investigation into Mike Flynns foreign entanglements when they made the decision to make him NSA would have been the biggest scandal of his presidency if it had been done by Obama.

It was like the third biggest news story yesterday.

lol, stop with the "they would have done it" excuses. Terrible argument. My reply to that is the same as when Bush was brought up on Obama stuff. Obama isn't in charge anymore and this isn't about him. Never a good argument.

I have almost 0 faith that this is about the media "doing their jobs". All your call for perspective is is an attempt to make your view on it the norm.

And I am not defending the President. I am glad the congressional hearings and a prosecutor was named. It needs an investigation. Absolutely. But no, I don't believe the media is doing their job in any kind of good faith.

 

[Deleted member 848]

trump is gonna go down as the worst president in us history, surprising no one.

 

[Zombie]

lol, stop with the "they would have done it" excuses. Terrible argument. My reply to that is the same as when Bush was brought up on Obama stuff. Obama isn't in charge anymore and this isn't about him. Never a good argument.

I have almost 0 faith that this is about the media "doing their jobs". All your call for perspective is is an attempt to make your view on it the norm.

And I am not defending the President. I am glad the congressional hearings and a prosecutor was named. It needs an investigation. Absolutely. But no, I don't believe the media is doing their job in any kind of good faith.

What excuse? My point is that in comparison to any presidency in my lifetime, Trumps takes the cake in terms of scandal. It wasn't the media that made Trump hire Flynn, then lie about knowing he was compromised, then ask the FBI director to drop the investigation, then fire him when he didn't.

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[Stoked]

trump is gonna go down as the worst president in us history, surprising no one.

It is looking increasingly likely. Not there yet IMO.

 

[Stoked]

What excuse? My point is that in comparison to any presidency in my lifetime, Trumps takes the cake in terms of scandal. It wasn't the media that made Trump hire Flynn, then lie about knowing he was compromised, then ask the FBI director to drop the investigation, then fire him when he didn't.

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I disagree. I have faith that he will get that title before it's all over but not yet. There are bigger negative marks and scandals IMO.

Like Iraq's MDWs and Fast and Furious.

 

[Zombie]

I disagree. I have faith that he will get that title before it's all over but not yet. There are bigger negative marks and scandals IMO.

Like Iraq's MDWs and Fast and Furious.

Haha. OK man.
Edited to add, I should make clear I don't just mean he takes the cake in terms of how bad his scandals are, but also how many there have been.

I mean we've got the Flynn thing, obstruction of justice over the Russia election meddling, the fact he's been in violation of the emolulents clause from day one (which in my opinion actually hasn't gotten enough media coverage), giving Israeli intelligence to the Russians in a fit of bragadoccio, asking the FBI to jail reporters who publish leaked info, that's just in four months and I'm sure I'm forgetting some things.

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[Stoked]

Haha. OK man.

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And why would those not be bigger? They resulted in peoples deaths and huge expenditures of money.

This thing with the current admin is currently only the allegation of misuse of power and collusion with a foreign government.

IMO to much of the scandal and impeachment talk is because he is a egomaniacal jerk that is more concerned with his hand size and his profits than the American people IMO. As bad as that is and looks it's not scandal.

Now, could this whole Russian//Comey/Flynn thing have legs? Absolutely. But at this point it is to much BS and opinion and not enough facts. Let's see what is found in the congressional hearings and by Mueller before we start assigning labels like the "biggest scandal in US history". It's way to early for that IMO. To me that is simply a byproduct of your (for example) disdain for him.

I get that, there's a ton of stuff not to like.

 

[Deleted member 848]

It is looking increasingly likely. Not there yet IMO.

it has been *five* months lmfao

 

[Stoked]

it has been *five* months lmfao

His pace is certainly encouraging lol