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Donald Fires FBI Director who's investigating Russian Election Hacking

This statement is bizarre to me. If Trump had been caught saying what Obama did it would be by far the biggest evidence of collusion thus far. Can you name something that has come out in the Trump investigation that is even half as incriminating as that statement would have been, had Trump been caught saying it?
The emails about a meeting to discuss dirt on Hillary between a russian government operative and the leadership team of the Trump campaign. Follow thst with multiple contradictory statements about weather such a meeting happend, then the nature of what was discussed. Then you quickly discover criminal activity by Trump campaign officials involving ties to Russia.

So were you ****ing joking, or what?

There's a chance that Trump doesn't get directly implicated, but his campaign warrants an investigation.

I didn't even mention the quid pro quo proposal from Trump to Comey which when rejected led to Comey getting fired. The false statement Trump directed Kushner to make. The draft letter explaining that Comey got fired for not dropping the investigation...

Get real man.

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For me, the issue of Russian interference was not whether or not they actually swung the election to Trump, but that the interference happened at all. I saw it as the application of what the Russians term "active measures" in cyberspace, and resulting in an attack on the sovereignty of the United States.

http://bigthink.com/paul-ratner/the-primer-on-russias-active-measures

I'm a lot more concerned in understanding all the various components of their cyberwar active measures against our democratic institutions, and what we can do to protect ourselves far better in future elections.

I don't think many people feel their "help" actually put Trump in the Oval Office, although that might depend on understanding what effect their targeted ads and social media postings might have had in those Midwestern states that were the swing states in 2016.

I would not want to see a focus on shenanigans involving Clinton and the DNC overshadow the fact that Russia committed an act of war against the United States(yes, that's an extreme view to some, but that's how I interpret what they did), and will use what they learned in 2016 to continue interfering in our elections and undermining our national sovereignty and democratic institutions. Did the Russians make a difference? I don't know enough to answer that question. But I don't expect them to stop trying now, especially with the present administration seemingly demonstrating no interest whatsoever in actually addressing this problem.

They attacked my country. It's a big deal to me, regardless of whether they actually made a difference this time around.
 
Yeah I don't think the question is if Russia got Donald in office, just if they actively attempted to interfere.

That's one question that has to do with Russia by itself. Then there is a question of the Trump campaign seeking assistance from a foriegn power to assist them in their campaign.

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The emails about a meeting to discuss dirt on Hillary between a russian government operative and the leadership team of the Trump campaign. Follow thst with multiple contradictory statements about weather such a meeting happend, then the nature of what was discussed. Then you quickly discover criminal activity by Trump campaign officials involving ties to Russia.

So were you ****ing joking, or what?

There's a chance that Trump doesn't get directly implicated, but his campaign warrants an investigation.

I didn't even mention the quid pro quo proposal from Trump to Comey which when rejected led to Comey getting fired. The false statement Trump directed Kushner to make. The draft letter explaining that Comey got fired for not dropping the investigation...

Get real man.

Sent from my SM-J700P using JazzFanz mobile app

If Donald had been caught on tape leaning over to Putin and saying, "I'll have more flexibility after the election," it would be a biggger lightning rod and a bigger legitimate piece of evidence of collusion than any of these things you have pointed out, by far.
 
If Donald had been caught on tape leaning over to Putin and saying, "I'll have more flexibility after the election," it would be a biggger lightning rod and a bigger legitimate piece of evidence of collusion than any of these things you have pointed out, by far.

No, it wouldn't. It's like you don't understand what evidence means. It would probably sway public opinion more, but that's not what really matters here.
 
But let's play...

What was Obama's comment "evidence" of? And I mean like the stuff a judge allows a jury to consider in a trial. What EXACTLY does the comment indicate?
 
Media outlets reporting that Flynn and his son will soon be indicted. Probably Monday morning.

Another “nothing Burger” right repubs?
 
Media outlets reporting that Flynn and his son will soon be indicted. Probably Monday morning.

Another “nothing Burger” right repubs?
As usual, don't lump all Republicans into the category of Trump supporters. His approval is like 37% so there are plenty of us who don't like him.
 
For what it's worth, I wouldn't trust the businessinsider.com website. They are very anti-Trump, which is fine with me, but they take it to the extreme where they often talk about extremely small probability events as if they are very possible or even likely to occur. (I haven't read this particular article, just a general comment.)

Good to know. But the only opinion expressed was my own; that it was going nowhere.

For the record, businessinsider isn't the only group reporting it.

The Hill

and congressman's gaetz site

And who can forget the original Faux in the henhouse
 
If Donald had been caught on tape leaning over to Putin and saying, "I'll have more flexibility after the election," it would be a biggger lightning rod and a bigger legitimate piece of evidence of collusion than any of these things you have pointed out, by far.

Have you considered the difference? One would have been, at the time, becoming president, whereas the other would be going off duty?

Have you considered that, all things being equal, the statement is factually true? That a president getting out of office would have a little more flexibility coming out of office.
 
I don't think you'll find a better examination of Russian interference in America's 2016 election then the two part Frontline documentary that was broadcast on 10/25 and 11/1. Examines Putin's career beginning in the 1990's. The link here is set to Part 2 because it focuses on the election, and it can be viewed independent of Part 1.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/putins-revenge/#video-2

FRONTLINE tells the inside story of how Vladimir Putin came to see the United States as an enemy — and why he decided to target an American election.
 
Paradise papers look interesting. They seem to indicate that a Kushner associate invested in Facebook and Twitter with Kremlin money.
 
Lessee......

a notorious acolyte of Obama lies to Pence, and Trump fires him. Gallant first effort at being inclusive in the new administration, and it goes to hell before Trump can even get the keys to the office.

yes, I do see how this charade is boiling down to nothing.

But, hey, chumps..... the stakes are high, very high. WWIII hangs in the balance. Gotta double down on your stupid wild charges.

Got it.
 
Lessee......

a notorious acolyte of Obama lies to Pence, and Trump fires him. Gallant first effort at being inclusive in the new administration, and it goes to hell before Trump can even get the keys to the office.

yes, I do see how this charade is boiling down to nothing.

But, hey, chumps..... the stakes are high, very high. WWIII hangs in the balance. Gotta double down on your stupid wild charges.

Got it.

Nothing?

This is a by the book, paint by numbers take down of an international fiscal giant.

And I don't buy that you think there's nothing.
 
Lessee......

a notorious acolyte of Obama lies to Pence, and Trump fires him. Gallant first effort at being inclusive in the new administration, and it goes to hell before Trump can even get the keys to the office.

yes, I do see how this charade is boiling down to nothing.

But, hey, chumps..... the stakes are high, very high. WWIII hangs in the balance. Gotta double down on your stupid wild charges.

Got it.

Speaking of WWIII, this piece from the failing(cs) NY Times was a tad nerve wracking....

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/04/opinion/sunday/nuclear-war-north-korea.html

John Brennan, the former head of the C.I.A., estimates the chance of a war with North Korea at 20 to 25 percent.

Joel S. Wit, a Korea expert at Johns Hopkins University, puts it at 40 percent.

Richard Haass, the president of the Council on Foreign Relations, says the odds may be somewhere around 50/50.

Yet we’re complacent: Neither the public nor the financial markets appreciate how high the risk is of a war, and how devastating one could be.

The Congressional Research Service last month estimated that as many as 300,000 people could die in the first few days of war — and that’s if it remains nonnuclear. If there is a nuclear exchange, “there easily could be a million deaths on the first day,” says Scott Sagan, an international security expert at Stanford.

Sagan says the odds of war “are certainly greater than is widely recognized by the American public.”


President Trump is traveling in Asia this week, rallying countries to strengthen sanctions against North Korea. His past efforts at this have been quite successful, and during my recent visit to Pyongyang I saw signs that sanctions were biting.

But the goal appears doomed: Almost no expert believes that sanctions will force Kim Jong-un to give up his nuclear weapons or halt his missile program. That puts us on a collision course, for North Korea seems determined to develop a clear capacity to target the U.S. with nuclear weapons, while the White House hints that it would rather have a war than allow the North to become a nuclear threat.

“Our president has been really clear about this,” H. R. McMaster, Trump’s national security adviser, said on Fox News. “He is not going to permit this rogue regime, Kim Jong-un, to threaten the United States with a nuclear weapon. And so he is willing to do anything necessary to prevent that from happening.”

The whispers in Washington are that “anything necessary” includes airstrikes on North Korea, such as a strike on a missile as it is being prepared for launch. When I asked North Korean officials what would happen in those circumstances, they answered unambiguously: war.

Tammy Duckworth, a former military pilot who is now a Democratic senator from Illinois, says that from what she hears, the chance is greater than 50/50 that the president will order a strike.

“I see a change in posture,” she told me. “I am extremely worried that we’ve moved beyond ‘Let’s prevent war’ to ‘It’s acceptable to do a first strike.’”


Duckworth and other Senate Democrats have introduced legislation that would prevent the president from making a pre-emptive strike on North Korea without congressional approval, barring an imminent threat to the U.S. or its allies.

Senator Lindsey Graham, a Republican, has said that Trump told him he’d choose a war with North Korea over allowing it to continue on its course.

“There is a military option: to destroy North Korea’s program and North Korea itself,” Graham told the “Today” show, relaying a conversation with Trump. “If thousands die, they’re going to die over there. They’re not going to die here — and he’s told me that to my face.”

Graham said that if North Korea continues to test intercontinental ballistic missiles, a war is “inevitable.”

This may be a bluff, but, if not, war is coming, for almost every expert believes that North Korea will continue its testing.

Trump didn’t create the problem, and it’s real: We should fear North Korea’s gaining the capacity to destroy U.S. cities. Eerily, on my last visit, North Koreans repeatedly said that a nuclear war with the U.S. was not only survivable but winnable.

The U.S. must now choose among three awful options: 1) A “freeze for a freeze” deal, which Secretary of State Rex Tillerson seems to be pursuing; 2) Long-term deterrence, just as we have deterred North Korea for decades from using its chemical and biological weapons; 3) A conventional war that might escalate into a nuclear exchange.


Security experts overwhelmingly say the least terrible choice is the deal for a freeze on North Korean testing in exchange for reductions in sanctions or U.S.-South Korean military exercises, but at this point it’s not clear that either Washington or Pyongyang would agree to such an arrangement. Deterrence is next best, and war is the worst option. But that’s the option Trump seems headed toward.

North Korea may also inflame the situation with provocations at any time, such as firing a long-range missile into the sea near Guam, or conducting an atmospheric nuclear test that would send radioactive fallout drifting toward the United States. Trump may also shoot down a North Korean missile over international waters; that’s less provocative than a strike on North Korean territory, but I’d still expect a military response. And there’s a constant risk of miscalculations and incidents that spiral out of control.

Fourteen years ago, America stumbled into a devastating war with Iraq without thinking through the consequences. This feels like déjà vu — only potentially far more devastating.


“I do believe there’s a greater risk than people appreciate,” Haass told me. “I don’t know if the odds are 50 percent, 40 percent, 60 percent, but it’s a hell of a lot more than negligible.”
 
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