Yes, I get that. The allegations went far beyond consensual sex, though. And Hillary was attacking the reputations of the accusers. The vast majority of Clinton supporters seemed to be okay with that.
Just a few posts up we went over this.
In the 90s I wanted Bill Clinton to step down because he lied to the American people on the record. That's a fact. It later became known he DID have sexual relations with Lewinsky.
That is an established fact.
That (an established fact) has a special place on my priority list.
In the 90s I wasn't very familiar with the allegations against Bill Clinton of sexual harassment and sexual assault. And even now, I don't know specifics, really.
I got into Bill stepping down by saying that I wanted to make clear that I thought he should because he lied to the American people.
I got into it saying that AT THE TIME I wanted him to leave office. This is not me rewriting history, saying that what I know now, the way I see things now, I wish he would have stepped down. This is me saying that had we had a conversation in the late 90s I would have told you that I think Clinton should leave office because he lied to us. Looked straight into the camera and set the record straight... by telling a lie. I was a young man at that time, I was a couple years away from enlisting in the Navy. I was far more idealistic than I am now. I was patriotic in a different, simpler way, than I am now (although I think I'm more patriotic, in a more substantial way with the little bit of wisdom I've gained). I felt Bill Clinton did not meet my standard of what a U.S. President should be, because of the lie. That's one thing I knew for certain, that he lied to us to cover his ***. That's what cowards do. That's not what a President should do. If he had refused to answer the question and I later find out what he did, I like him a little less, sure, but I wouldn't have felt strongly about him leaving office.
You have brought up the other allegations about 6 times in response to me alone. That has never had anything to do with what I'm talking about. It's not relevant to the conversation. It's like you want me to say I TRIPLE wanted Bill to step down.
I wanted Bill Clinton to leave office in disgrace for lying to the American people because I wanted the standard to be set that it wasn't okay for the President to lie directly to the American People.
I want to add a little extra because I'm afraid you're gonna try to turn this again into a discussion about something it is not. Bill Clinton had sex (of a sort) with a White House intern. Consensual or not, that was inappropriate. In the 90s it hardly raised an eyebrow. If we were to have a separate conversation about how I NOW feel about Clinton's actions in regard to Lewinsky and how I feel about the other allegations, let's do that. But that's not what I've been talking about.
And that's the point. You don't ever seem to get what I'm talking about. You don't ever seem to be able to engage in the conversation that you often start, and that I try to engage in, but that you then shift endlessly into trivialities and non-sequiturs. I don't need that sort of frustration.
I'm not going to put you on ignore. You're not Dutch. I think that you are being honest. I think that you are making what you consider to be honest arguments for your point of view. You have integrity.
But you do have an uncanny ability to annoy me with how your argument wanders and circles back on itself. I have lost my cool and acted in ways that I'm ashamed of in regard to our interactions. I'm not going to let that happen again. So I'm not going to respond to you, although I will read your posts and consider your arguments.
