Donald Trump

[Gameface]

Before we build what will be an ineffective wall to bolster an ineffective immigration policy maybe we could change our immigration laws to allow the majority of law abiding people who want to be here into our country and eliminate the need to control the boarder.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

Before we build what will be an ineffective wall to bolster an ineffective immigration policy maybe we could change our immigration laws to allow the majority of law abiding people who want to be here into our country and eliminate the need to control the boarder.

I talked with a farmer recently who had just learned that his employee (an illegal immigrant) had been murdered by a cartel for refusing to carry drugs across the border. Recently a mass grave was discovered in Mexico, presumably filled with people similar to the farmer's employee. What sort of immigration law do you believe would solve this type of problem?

 

[Gameface]

I talked with a farmer recently who had just learned that his employee (an illegal immigrant) had been murdered by a cartel for refusing to carry drugs across the border. Recently a mass grave was discovered in Mexico, presumably filled with people similar to the farmer's employee. What sort of immigration law do you believe would solve this type of problem?

None. I believe ending the drug war will solve those problems.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

None. I believe ending the drug war will solve those problems.

I know several families who have lost members due to overdose. I'm not in favor of anything that makes hard core drugs more accessible if that's what you're proposing. I am in favor of steps that make them less accessible.

 

[Gameface]

I know several families who have lost members due to overdose. I'm not in favor of anything that makes hard core drugs more accessible if that's what you're proposing. I am in favor of steps that make them less accessible.

Yeah, so we disagree.

 

[gandalfe]

I know several families who have lost members due to overdose. I'm not in favor of anything that makes hard core drugs more accessible if that's what you're proposing. I am in favor of steps that make them less accessible.

I assume you have some steps in mind? I mean, obviously, the war on drugs currently is a miserable joke of a failure, and anything that is just another iteration of the same type of steps is probably doomed to the same type of horrendous consequences.

As for building a wall... IT WON'T WORK. What you have to do is change the circumstances that make people want to come over, to risk incarceration and whatnot. Bring Mexico up instead of bringing America down. And, honestly illegal immigration numbers are down significantly over the last decade, at least according to the latest numbers I have seen.

 

[♪alt13]

I know several families who have lost members due to overdose. I'm not in favor of anything that makes hard core drugs more accessible if that's what you're proposing. I am in favor of steps that make them less accessible.

Doesn't the fact that smoking cigarettes is in decline while heroin addiction is skyrocketing give you some pause? Addiction is an affliction to be treated by doctors not punished by prison wardens. The reality is that you cannot hope to attack addiction on the supply side. We have tried. It has not, does not, will not work.

 

[fishonjazz]

I know several families who have lost members due to overdose. I'm not in favor of anything that makes hard core drugs more accessible if that's what you're proposing. I am in favor of steps that make them less accessible.

Did those people overdose while the war on drugs was still going on? Did the war on drugs prevent them from overdosing?

Maybe if the war on drugs was not in place there would have been more education about drugs and more treatment options available for those addicted and those people would not have died.
Regardless it's impossible to stop overdoses all together whether drugs are legal or illegal but maybe we can stop the cartel murders. I think if there is a way to stop some ruthless killers from filling the ground with bodies of innocent victims then we should give it a try. But that's just me.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

 

[Deleted member 848]

P.S. Count me among the crowd who is sick and tired of the "nuanced" argument. "Nuance" is really a way for the PC crowd to believe that their convoluted view of the world is proof of their superior intelligence. I believe in common sense.

Yikes.


Well. Here's what happens when posters consider nuance:

Did those people overdose while the war on drugs was still going on? Did the war on drugs prevent them from overdosing?

Maybe if the war on drugs was not in place there would have been more education about drugs and more treatment options available for those addicted and those people would not have died.
Regardless it's impossible to stop overdoses all together whether drugs are legal or illegal but maybe we can stop the cartel murders. I think if there is a way to stop some ruthless killers from filling the ground with bodies of innocent victims then we should give it a try. But that's just me.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

Doesn't the fact that smoking cigarettes is in decline while heroin addiction is skyrocketing give you some pause? Addiction is an affliction to be treated by doctors not punished by prison wardens. The reality is that you cannot hope to attack addiction on the supply side. We have tried. It has not, does not, will not work.

I assume you have some steps in mind? I mean, obviously, the war on drugs currently is a miserable joke of a failure, and anything that is just another iteration of the same type of steps is probably doomed to the same type of horrendous consequences.

As for building a wall... IT WON'T WORK. What you have to do is change the circumstances that make people want to come over, to risk incarceration and whatnot. Bring Mexico up instead of bringing America down. And, honestly illegal immigration numbers are down significantly over the last decade, at least according to the latest numbers I have seen.

Notice how every single one of your points is refuted. The wall won't help ****, drug regulations won't address drug abuse in any sense, and Trump's rah-rah policies aren't long-term fixes.

This is all 'nuanced' thinking. To have a nuanced view is to dive deep into policy and actually consider the pros & cons-- as opposed to making face-value "common sense judgements".

As long as those on the right-wing adopt this anti-intelligentsia attitude, you will continue to lose supporters. Reminds me of that time Colbert joked to GWB's face about facts having "a very liberal bias"


EDIT: and the posters who are disagreeing with you aren't even all left-wing. That's the best part. I sure am. Alt and Gameface have both talked about libertarianism to varying levels of support since they've started posting here.

 

[Stoked]

Before we build what will be an ineffective wall to bolster an ineffective immigration policy maybe we could change our immigration laws to allow the majority of law abiding people who want to be here into our country and eliminate the need to control the boarder.

I talked with a farmer recently who had just learned that his employee (an illegal immigrant) had been murdered by a cartel for refusing to carry drugs across the border. Recently a mass grave was discovered in Mexico, presumably filled with people similar to the farmer's employee. What sort of immigration law do you believe would solve this type of problem?

None. I believe ending the drug war will solve those problems.

I know several families who have lost members due to overdose. I'm not in favor of anything that makes hard core drugs more accessible if that's what you're proposing. I am in favor of steps that make them less accessible.

Yeah, so we disagree.

I'm somewhere between you two. I think you need to secure the border. period. But I also think GF has solid points about the war on drugs and immigration. SMart reforms like that will go a long ways towards securing the border. I support those ideas but we still need to know and control what flows over our borders. Both ways, both borders.

Edit: Not saying that securing the border can only be done with a wall. Just that it needs to be controlled.

 

[NAOS]

prohibition policies have never made drugs less accessible

EDIT: they make them harder to find than simply walking down to the corner market, but the flow of goods has not slowed. Prohibition has also caused the strength of substances to skyrocket. If you care about the "drug problem", then you should be in support of ending prohibition. If that doesn't make common sense to you, then **** your common sense and do some research.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

Yikes.


Well. Here's what happens when posters consider nuance:







Notice how every single one of your points is refuted. The wall won't help ****, drug regulations won't address drug abuse in any sense, and Trump's rah-rah policies aren't long-term fixes.

This is all 'nuanced' thinking. To have a nuanced view is to dive deep into policy and actually consider the pros & cons-- as opposed to making face-value "common sense judgements".

As long as those on the right-wing adopt this anti-intelligentsia attitude, you will continue to lose supporters. Reminds me of that time Colbert joked to GWB's face about facts having "a very liberal bias"


EDIT: and the posters who are disagreeing with you aren't even all left-wing. That's the best part. I sure am. Alt and Gameface have both talked about libertarianism to varying levels of support since they've started posting here.

The fact that I disagree with you or others on an issue does not make me wrong. I appreciate the debate. It might result in changing my mind. The evidence I've seen in my own life does not lead me to believe that legalizing drugs will solve the problem, though. I think the opposite would be the case. I believe it would be like opening Pandora's Box. I certainly hope I'm wrong because I believe that eventually those who are for complete legalization are going to get their wish.