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Donald Trump

Stoked said:
I'm somewhere between you two. I think you need to secure the border. period. But I also think GF has solid points about the war on drugs and immigration. SMart reforms like that will go a long ways towards securing the border. I support those ideas but we still need to know and control what flows over our borders. Both ways, both borders.

Edit: Not saying that securing the border can only be done with a wall. Just that it needs to be controlled.
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What alternative method of border control do you propose?
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
What alternative method of border control do you propose?
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Increasing the funding, training of border patrol agents. Also increasing the number of agents. More cameras, state funding from the feds.

Having Mexico and Canada have some skin in the game. Make it in their best interest to discourage illegal immigration and smuggling across the border. Do this by attaching foreign aid to it.

Granting amnesty to those already here with out additional hard crimes (murder, theft, assault...). Improving the flow of immigrants. The process is overly lengthy and cumbersome and leads to illegal immigration s the process and cost are prohibitive.

Legalize drugs and that will further reduce the need to smuggle as the can straight up transport across the border now and lead to jobs in the states actually.

Just real fast answers for an internet debate.
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
The fact that I disagree with you or others on an issue does not make me wrong. I appreciate the debate. It might result in changing my mind. The evidence I've seen in my own life does not lead me to believe that legalizing drugs will solve the problem, though. I think the opposite would be the case. I believe it would be like opening Pandora's Box. I certainly hope I'm wrong because I believe that eventually those who are for complete legalization are going to get their wish.
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BTW, I've seen no evidence that our northern border is a problem. Have you? I've spent a lot of time in Mexico and Canada (not just tourist destinations). For five years I worked for a company that sent me to Mexico on a marketing blitz every summer. I have relatives in Canada and I lived there for 6 months. I've talked to Mexican citizens about the corruption of their government. I've never heard anything similar from Canadians. Mexico is a country with overwhelming resources. It has the potential to be an economic powerhouse, but unfortunately for the Mexican citizens they've always been handicapped by government corruption. If Mexico ever lives up to its potential there would be no need for extra security on that border.
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
BTW, I've seen no evidence that our northern border is a problem. Have you? I've spent a lot of time in Mexico and Canada (not just tourist destinations). For five years I worked for a company that sent me to Mexico on a marketing blitz every summer. I have relatives in Canada and I lived there for 6 months. I've talked to Mexican citizens about the corruption of their government. I've never heard anything similar from Canadians. Mexico is a country with overwhelming resources. It has the potential to be an economic powerhouse, but unfortunately for the Mexican citizens they've always been handicapped by government corruption. If Mexico ever lives up to its potential there would be no need for extra security on that border.
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Yet another way to help secure the border. A more prosperous Mexico is good for America. We can start by terminating programs and the promotion of programs like Fast and Furious.
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
The fact that I disagree with you or others on an issue does not make me wrong. I appreciate the debate. It might result in changing my mind. The evidence I've seen in my own life does not lead me to believe that legalizing drugs will solve the problem, though. I think the opposite would be the case. I believe it would be like opening Pandora's Box. I certainly hope I'm wrong because I believe that eventually those who are for complete legalization are going to get their wish.
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There are places that have ended drug prohibition. It doesn't solve the drug problem, it solves the drug prohibition problem which has devastating effects just like drug addiction does. But the drug problem doesn't explode after prohibition.

In the U.S., before alcohol prohibition, most people who drank drank either beer or wine. During and for a considerable time after prohibition hard liquor dominated. Think about that.

Also think about the violent organized crime organizations that sprang up in response to prohibition, and the effect they had on corruption in the U.S., and the lives lost not from alcohol, which killed people before, during and after prohibition, but at the hands of gangsters and corrupt police and other officials.

Prohibition is just as destructive as drug addiction. Let's end half of the destructiveness and start dealing with the the other half in a more effective way.
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
What alternative method of border control do you propose?
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All Mexicans should be able to come and go as they please. I know it seems to be hard for Americans to believe but the vast majority of Mexicans aren't criminals. Open the border don't close it. Legalize drugs and the cartels go away. Honestly I'm tired of the obsession over protecting an imaginary line.
 
Gameface said:
There are places that have ended drug prohibition. It doesn't solve the drug problem, it solves the drug prohibition problem



Prohibition is just as destructive as drug addiction. Let's end half of the destructiveness and start dealing with the the other half in a more effective way.
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This.
Legalization won't eliminate the drug abuse problem.
But the prohibition problem (unnecessary lives being ruined and negatively affected by incarceration, court costs, prison costs, police force costs, fines, etc) could be dealt with.
 
♪alt13 said:
All Mexicans should be able to come and go as they please. I know it seems to be hard for Americans to believe but the vast majority of Mexicans aren't criminals. Open the border don't close it. Legalize drugs and the cartels go away. Honestly I'm tired of the obsession over protecting an imaginary line.
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We pay taxes for services that are provided on one side of this imaginary line. We abide by laws that are enforced on one side of the line as well. I agree with Stoked when he says that one of the solutions is a better government in Mexico, but we can't do anything about that. Of course that would be the best solution, though. As long as Mexico is led by a regime that caters to crime cartels the border is going to be a problem.
 
We should just buy Mexico for a ham sandwich, open the doors for mass immigration to America, we all move south of the border under cloak of darkness, then build wall.

Boom. Better weather.
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
We pay taxes for services that are provided on one side of this imaginary line.
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Mexicans pay US taxes.
https://money.cnn.com/2014/11/20/news/economy/immigration-myths/

Joe Bagadonuts said:
We abide by laws that are enforced on one side of the line as well.
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Mexicans are subject to US law when in the US.

Joe Bagadonuts said:
I agree with Stoked when he says that one of the solutions is a better government in Mexico, but we can't do anything about that. Of course that would be the best solution, though. As long as Mexico is led by a regime that caters to crime cartels the border is going to be a problem.
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As long as Americans keep buying their drugs from crime cartels instead of corporations Mexico will have a cartel problem.
 
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