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Donovan Mitchell - CRT and Off Court Racial Issues were Draining

sahlensguy said:
I didn't single out Mitchell for suffering from racism in Utah. I'm sure it is widespread here, and everywhere. He is the one with the platform, though, that influences many others. His message of the racist people and fans of Utah is biased but too many people will want to believe it to be so.

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Dude, your "shut up and dribble" mentality IS the bias. How do you not see that?
 
The Thriller said:
You compared Mitchell’s comparing of SLC and Cleveland to Kanye west, a man who wanted to go “Death Con on Jews” and last month praised Hitler. This is an absurd comparison. Do you live in SLC? Perhaps it’s people like you that’s actually making it harder to recruit and retain good basketball players?

Honestly, I really don’t care what you think of me as I see you’re in over your head when discussing this issue.

The big problem I have are athletes being told to “shut up and dribble.” No, they’re human beings who have every right to speak out as anyone else. What they say might be great or absurd. But we should never diminish their right to speak out. Especially black athletes, who have experienced a history of “just shut up and do what the master says.” I find this type of dialogue really demeaning towards fellow human beings.
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Well I'm not advocating for Donovan's right of free speech to be diminished. But to me, there can be consequences for what people say and if you want to cheer this guy when he returns after continuing to piss all over us, then that is you're right too, but I won't.

And yeah, Ye is an extreme example, but spreading hate is spreading hate.

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I guess I don't understand how Utah's reputation with regard to racism is ever supposed to improve when so many people's gut reaction is to immediately undermine and downplay whenever a Black person speaks of their experiences.

The whole "There's racists everywhere, Utah is being unfairly targeted" group seems to miss a crucial point: The reputation didn't just come from thin air. There's a reason our Black population is essentially non-existent. Racist events may happen everywhere, but from my observation, the general reaction to them when they happen here is less about having Black people's backs and more crying about how unfair it is how much negative attention we're getting. When other Black people see that, it probably doesn't make them want to live here, and certainly doesn't make it feel very welcoming for those who do live here.
 
MT Steve said:
I guess I don't understand how Utah's reputation with regard to racism is ever supposed to improve when so many people's gut reaction is to immediately undermine and downplay whenever a Black person speaks of their experiences.

The whole "There's racists everywhere, Utah is being unfairly targeted" group seems to miss a crucial point: The reputation didn't just come from thin air. There's a reason our Black population is essentially non-existent. Racist events may happen everywhere, but from my observation, the general reaction to them when they happen here is less about having Black people's backs and more crying about how unfair it is how much negative attention we're getting. When other Black people see that, it probably doesn't make them want to live here, and certainly doesn't make it feel very welcoming for those who do live here.
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I don't undermine or downplay or overplay the racist experiences my black friends and co-workers. I treat them as equals with a sympathetic ear. Donovan didn't tell me his issues though and instead used his platform to perpetuate a stereotype to his millions of followers. It's harmful.

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sahlensguy said:
I don't undermine or downplay or overplay the racist experiences my black friends and co-workers. I treat them as equals with a sympathetic ear. Donovan didn't tell me his issues though and instead used his platform to perpetuate a stereotype to his millions of followers. It's harmful.

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Donovan did tell you his issues. You said he should shut up and dribble.

I don't know you in real life. Maybe you do as you say when Black friends talk to you about their experiences. But in this particular thread, you seem far more concerned about complaining about the stereotype than just having a Black person's back when they speak up.
 
Hearsky said:
Dude, your "shut up and dribble" mentality IS the bias. How do you not see that?
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Spewing hatred to his millions is wrong.

I would never tell Donovan to shut up and dribble if he told me those problems personally, so there is a big difference in the light that you want to believe I am vs who I really am. I would feel sympathy for the guy and try to offer my wisdom with him.


But going public like this is wrong.

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sahlensguy said:
Spewing hatred to his millions is wrong.

I would never tell Donovan to shut up and dribble if he told me those problems personally, so there is a big difference in the light that you want to believe I am vs who I really am. I would feel sympathy for the guy and try to offer my wisdom with him.


But going public like this is wrong.

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You... think people should only complain about racist events in private settings, and that it's not appropriate to go public with it?

Really?
 
MT Steve said:
Donovan did tell you his issues. You said he should shut up and dribble.

I don't know you in real life. Maybe you do as you say when Black friends talk to you about their experiences. But in this particular thread, you seem far more concerned about complaining about the stereotype than just having a Black person's back when they speak up.
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Donovan isn't reading this thread. Get real.

I have the backs of those I know in person for good reasons. I don't generally have the backs of celebrities that I have no clue to who they are other than their public persona. I don't know Donovan. You don't know Donovan. Why stick up for him? Are you here to put Utah down?

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sahlensguy said:
Donovan isn't reading this thread. Get real.
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I'm not referring to this thread. I'm not sure why you would think that.

I was referring to Donovan talking about all the pushback he got when he brought up issues of racial equality.

sahlensguy said:
I have the backs of those I know in person for good reasons. I don't generally have the backs of celebrities that I have no clue to who they are other than their public persona. I don't know Donovan. You don't know Donovan. Why stick up for him? Are you here to put Utah down?

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This is the problem, right here. When Mitchell uses his platform to talk about, among other issues, the pushback he received from people here, and you perceive being on his side as "putting Utah down".

This is what I mean when I say too many people here are more concerned about the reputational hit the state takes when issues like this get brought up. Instead of worrying about how it must feel for Black people, their mind sweeps that under the rug and immediately leaps to "Downplay" mode.

It's so frustrating.
 
sahlensguy said:
Celebrities? Mostly.

True victims? Absolutely not.

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Donovan wasn't painting himself as the victim - he was speaking for other people. And you don't want to hear it because the unavoidable consequence of bringing up these issues is that it makes Utah look bad. As if that consequence isn't worth raising awareness.
 
MT Steve said:
I'm not referring to this thread. I'm not sure why you would think that.

I was referring to Donovan talking about all the pushback he got when he brought up issues of racial equality.



This is the problem, right here. When Mitchell uses his platform to talk about, among other issues, the pushback he received from people here, and you perceive being on his side as "putting Utah down".

This is what I mean when I say too many people here are more concerned about the reputational hit the state takes when issues like this get brought up. Instead of worrying about how it must feel for Black people, their mind sweeps that under the rug and immediately leaps to "Downplay" mode.

It's so frustrating.
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Hey man, I'm not for the racism here either. It's a problem. Donovan's going public with his victimization hurts the hope for change, not help it.

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MT Steve said:
Donovan wasn't painting himself as the victim - he was speaking for other people. And you don't want to hear it because the unavoidable consequence of bringing up these issues is that it makes Utah look bad. As if that consequence isn't worth raising awareness.
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It does make Utah look bad, but that is not the bad. The bad part is that Donovan and through his supporters make Utah look worse than it is.

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sahlensguy said:
Well I'm not advocating for Donovan's right of free speech to be diminished. But to me, there can be consequences for what people say and if you want to cheer this guy when he returns after continuing to piss all over us, then that is you're right too, but I won't.

And yeah, Ye is an extreme example, but spreading hate is spreading hate.

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What you did was set up a straw man argument.
 
The Thriller said:
Always relevant:

View attachment 13566

You’ll never root out the injustices and inequalities that Mitchell pointed out by ignoring them.

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You'll never root out all injustices and inequalities. But that is just my opinion.

Doesn't mean you shouldn't try, but Donovan spreading stereotypes to his followers who are haters only make the problem worse.

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