Donovan to play point guard and Conley to play off the ball


MCarter

Well-Known Member
C'mon fam, the draft capital alone is tough to swallow at this point. Memphis got Brandon Clarke with that pick who would be an absolute gift from god on this current Jazz team.

I like Mike, but now we are starting Mike Conley and he's NOT the PG. Two dudes in the starting lineup who can't crack 6'2" and who now have confusing roles. To say this was well managed by the FO is burying your head in the sand. The saving grace would to make him a super sub and let him dominate second units, and yet they refuse to go that route because he's a big name and paid a ton.
Yeah I got you. And I’d be down to trade him too but the principle of the trade when we made it was solid to me.
As far as Brandon Clark goes it would be sweet to have him, although idk if we’d have drafted him. There was probably still a few non shooting centers on the board at that time so ya know, kinda our calling card.
 


Handlogten's Heros

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2019 Award Winner
Don wasn’t ready to be a playmaker his first or second years. His third year he improved but the data suggests outside of the bubble, his line ups as the leader play maker weren’t great either. This is a huge case of recentcy bias. Don didn’t even play PG in college, so by surrounding him with PGs and developing those skills over his first few seasons in the NBA was a great move by the office. Obviously Conley didn’t turn out as expected, but it was hailed at the time. Similarly, Kemba, Derozan, Westbrook, the clippers, and the list goes on of other players and teams that didn’t work out as expected continues. Building a team is part analytics, part development, and a whole bunch of luck.
In our system you don't need a traditional pg... between that, DM being 6'1", and a high usage guard I would think we'd have enough vision not to put another small pg next to him. Joe Ingles is enough of a pg to play there. Hell Ricky ticks as many boxes of what we need as a backcourt mate as Mike does... they are just different boxes.

DM was always going to be a combo guard... he was pushed into sg because we had Ricky. His ideal backcourt mate is something like prime George Hill or a healthy Rodney Hood that could play defense. Mike works fine but is overkill in some aspects. The issue is the purchase price and cap resources. If we commit that many resources to the player I would prefer the match be perfect or at least more of a long term move.

This isn't hindsight either... I said during his second year he should be viewed as a pg (whatever a pg is in the modern nba). Its just funny when management takes longer to get there. I say a lot of **** though... and most of it doesn't happen obvi. I think the end result of this roster looks solid and if they are willing to pay the tax this year and next I won't complain.
 

Handlogten's Heros

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2019 Award Winner
Lets stop the joke where we act like Mitchell is undersized at 220 with a 6'10 wingspan so it's impossible to have a smaller PG next to him.
Impossible no... ideal? If I am building a team I'm looking for ideal fits next to DM and Rudy first and foremost.

It would work a lot better if we had one dynamic, long, defensive wing. It works fine as is... but so does Joe. I'm hopeful we see a much better version of Mike.
 

FAILED STATE

Well-Known Member
And honestly the Mike trade isn’t terrible if we don’t pay 150% and if we’d have got him for the previous playoff run. That extra first lingering out there really sucks... if it was just the one pick and the rotation players then not great but still manageable.

Mike will be better this year in part because of the different role... and in part because of familiarity. He won't just be a spot up shooter but will focus on attacking off ball with DM on the court. I think he's still valuable to have and am happy we won't force it through him as a traditional pg. I really thought he'd be a super version of George Hill on offense. It sounds like they won't force him into the closing lineup every night but that it will be matchup dependent... per Locke on the Duncd on Pod.
I hadn’t heard this. That’s good news, at least.

****, man.... there’s still time to pivot.... OPJ.
 

Handlogten's Heros

Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
I hadn’t heard this. That’s good news, at least.

****, man.... there’s still time to pivot.... OPJ.
I'm not convinced a straight swap would be on the table if OPJ is healthy. I think we only move off Conley if it is clearly not working or he gets hurt and we get under the tax. I think it will work well enough this year to convince them to see it through the end of the year... unless something too good to pass up comes around.

I'm excited to see what our young wings have to offer... as long as Joe hasn't fallen off a cliff I think we are solid there.
 

infection

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Staff member
2018 Award Winner
2019 Award Winner
I hadn’t heard this. That’s good news, at least.

****, man.... there’s still time to pivot.... OPJ.
“He has injury history. Let’s wait and see him be healthy, so that we can then say we don’t have the assets to obtain him because he’s proven he’s healthy.”
 

Saint Cy of JFC

Well-Known Member
In our system you don't need a traditional pg... between that, DM being 6'1", and a high usage guard I would think we'd have enough vision not to put another small pg next to him. Joe Ingles is enough of a pg to play there. Hell Ricky ticks as many boxes of what we need as a backcourt mate as Mike does... they are just different boxes.

DM was always going to be a combo guard... he was pushed into sg because we had Ricky. His ideal backcourt mate is something like prime George Hill or a healthy Rodney Hood that could play defense. Mike works fine but is overkill in some aspects. The issue is the purchase price and cap resources. If we commit that many resources to the player I would prefer the match be perfect or at least more of a long term move.

This isn't hindsight either... I said during his second year he should be viewed as a pg (whatever a pg is in the modern nba). Its just funny when management takes longer to get there. I say a lot of **** though... and most of it doesn't happen obvi. I think the end result of this roster looks solid and if they are willing to pay the tax this year and next I won't complain.

I think the Jazz need a traditional PG, or at least the modern day version of it ( I would define as any guard with strong ball handling skills against pressure, efficient in PNR, able to hit open shots on and off the dribble, and isn't always in score first mode)

Ingles is aging pretty fast. His excellent PNR play for bigs won't be there much longer. I think it would be a mistake to make size such a priority for the next PG/Ball handling Whatever. I do think Oni has potential to fill that role to an extent, maybe enough to compliment Mitchell, but I will be worried if Conley exits and the Jazz can't get another starting caliber playmaker
 

Handlogten's Heros

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2019 Award Winner
I think the Jazz need a traditional PG, or at least the modern day version of it ( I would define as any guard with strong ball handling skills against pressure, efficient in PNR, able to hit open shots on and off the dribble, and isn't always in score first mode)

Ingles is aging pretty fast. His excellent PNR play for bigs won't be there much longer. I think it would be a mistake to make size such a priority for the next PG/Ball handling Whatever. I do think Oni has potential to fill that role to an extent, maybe enough to compliment Mitchell, but I will be worried if Conley exits and the Jazz can't get another starting caliber playmaker
He's definitely gone after this year. The money to bring him back would be pretty catastrophic tax wise.... unless Rudy is not extended. In which case we won't be that great any way.
 

Handlogten's Heros

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2019 Award Winner
Who knows. The Jazz are in a weird position and I dont think anyone really knows exactly what's going on internally in terms of the decision tree on the tax.
Depending on what Rudy gets we will be like 7-10M in the tax unless we moved on from JC, Bojan, Joe, or Favs. It is clear to me from listening to Tony Jones that Favs is kinda like the DM whisperer. I think he was brought in to be the backup center but also help the Rudy DM relationship... so unless Udoka is killing it I'm not sure they'd move Favs. JC would be the most likely to move of that group but I think it is very likely that Mike is out after this year... either goes ring chasing on the cheap or gets MLE or better money from someone. A one year overpay from a bottom feeder wouldn't surprise me.
 

str8line

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Contributor
2019 Award Winner
About time.Don needs to run this ****.

Forrest could turn into a nice piece for us.
 

Handlogten's Heros

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2019 Award Winner
Sadly I think Derrick White might be the best fit (outside of an all star level player) for what I think we need next to DM in the backcourt now and long term. Its a different world if we pick him instead of TB.
 

NUMBERICA

Well-Known Member
No one ever said he was a ****** player. But the very best screwdriver in the world will have a really hard time chopping down a redwood. The wrong fit is as bad as a bad player. It makes the team worse on the whole.
With exception to that some of the dregs of the board have said he is a ****** player, this is so dead ****ing on.
 

NUMBERICA

Well-Known Member
Joe can play enough pg... we could have gotten a cheaper backup... we felt we needed a PG with a capital P and G. Long term I always felt he needed to be the smallest guy in the starting lineup to maintain defensive integrity. Whoever you pair him with better have defensive length... offensively I’m fine with Mike especially if there is a clear pecking order but I always maintained if you look at the things you want in a backcourt mate for DM... length, defense, shooting were the biggest things... playmaking will help but we can get that elsewhere. I would have rolled with Ingles or found a player more in his mold (hard to do I admit). Or put more of a two guard next to him. Oni may save us as he theoretically fits what I’d want just wish we had the draft capital back.
Malcolm Brogdon would've been quite ideal and I think the Jazz could've gotten him.

Theo Maledon was also just sitting there at #23, #25, #27, and #33 (though the end-product is a mystery but I think he's gonna be good). I also think Bane is a lock for a good 10+ year career with some low-key PG attributes.
 

Handlogten's Heros

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2019 Award Winner
Malcolm Brogdon would've been quite ideal and I think the Jazz could've gotten him.

Theo Maledon was also just sitting there at #23, #25, #27, and #33 (though the end-product is a mystery but I think he's gonna be good). I also think Bane is a lock for a good 10+ year career with some low-key PG attributes.
Forgot about him... though people say the medicals on Malcolm are really scary.

I like Bane a lot... I hope we don't regret that pick. It will still be better than TB though because Udoka at least has elite size and athleticism. I wouldn't be shocked if he turned out to be a Capela type player.
 

NUMBERICA

Well-Known Member
Forgot about him... though people say the medicals on Malcolm are really scary.

I like Bane a lot... I hope we don't regret that pick. It will still be better than TB though because Udoka at least has elite size and athleticism. I wouldn't be shocked if he turned out to be a Capela type player.
Also... Alex Caruso.
 

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