Donovan's D so far has been Deplorable

[Getting Traded]

Thought DM was solid in the Portland game. Has gone downhill last two and cratered in the OKC game. The ball watching while his guy slips in for the offensive rebounds is the one that probably drives me the most crazy.

I noticed that too, on one play he was standing there, not even trying to box out, and the man in his area just stepped in and dunked a follow-up.

 

[Jazzinho]

Donovan O is great. We all know it, he knows it, the other teams know it too. His shot selection this year so far has not been great, but this is something he always struggles in the first weeks of the season. I'm not worried at all.
The point is if he wants to get anything better than first round exits he needs to be better on defense. We cannot concede easy points because one forgot about his man on rebound or off ball penetrations. He must be more active on the perimeter defense, he cannot conceade after getting beat on first step. It seems to be that running the point made him lose a bit of his energy on defense which is understandable, but he will have to adapt and improve.

 

[KqWIN]

Some of you guys make me question if you know anything about basketball.

Despite getting the main focus of opposing defenses, Don has a steady improvement the first three years of his career in:
Points Per Game
Rebounds Per Game
Assists Per Game
3pt%
FT%

I agree that his defense needs more attention. He is an average defender, but its not like he's a guy we do our best to hide. But he does have to improve.

The narrative that he's just a volume scorer is so ignorant. Our coaching staff is finally JUST NOW making him the main facilitator. He had to do it on the fly in the playoffs. As for assist numbers, they should fly off the charts before long. I expect a 6 assists+ per game this year despite Joe, Conley and others running offense.

The negativity around here is suffocating.

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Negativity? Well I guess negativity is only suffocating if it’s something you disagree with. Gobert negativity is A OK I guess.

The statistical improvements are very small. For example, the year two to year three per100 is 33.3/5.8/5.9/1.9 compared to 33.5/6.2/6.0/1.4. Really, not a huge difference there. His total shooting efficiency is up, but really...these aren’t significant improvements.

He has gotten distinctively better in some areas. His FT is better, his mid range is really good...but he’s also made changes for the worse. His percentage of shots at the rim are way down, his floaters are way up, and his defense has gotten worse.

What’s most important is that he hasn’t made progress in the areas where he can truly make a difference. His defense is poor when it could be really great. That’s just an effort thing, and when you have so many ball handlers and guys wanting more touches you don’t get the excuse of having to carry the whole load. There are several players on this team who are one way, all offensive guys. So it’s not like he has an extraordinary burden on him.

His playmaking also hasn’t taken much of a leap. It’s better, but not anything significant. It doesn’t matter if he’s the main “facilitator” or not. He’s had the ball a ton over the years. The reason why he’s not a great passer is because he’s not capable. It’s a skill that he hasn’t developed. Fact is, his decision making is poor and he is not great at making reads on the fly. Too often commits to a shot or pass before the play develops instead of reading the defense. So while I believe his defense is capped by effort, his playmaking is actually something that needs to be developed.

Then you have other things like getting to the FT line, transition, and moving off the ball. All of these things he’s pretty bad at for a lead guard. His FTr is improved off his rookie year, but not his second year thanks to his floater obsession, he’s consistently been one of the worst transition players in the league, and he’s basically a statue off the ball...but that’s more of the design of Quin’s offense.

All together he is improved, but not significantly over the years. In some areas he’s gotten worse. His scoring is very valuable. He’s great and has been great at converting difficult opportunities. But what really makes an offensive star is the ability to create easy baskets for himself and teammates. Mitchell isn’t great at either of those things right now.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I noticed that too, on one play he was standing there, not even trying to box out, and the man in his area just stepped in and dunked a follow-up.

It happens on back cuts too. There were actually two in the OKC game. Hill got one and Dort got the other.

Part of it is teams don’t offensive rebound so boxing out isn’t as big a priority... so you aren’t ready. I’d just like the defensive focus to be better on his part. He might not be able to give it all his energy because of his offensive role but just don’t get spacey. Then in spurts give it a super effort.

 

[KqWIN]

It happens on back cuts too. There were actually two in the OKC game. Hill got one and Dort got the other.

Part of it is teams don’t offensive rebound so boxing out isn’t as big a priority... so you aren’t ready. I’d just like the defensive focus to be better on his part. He might not be able to give it all his energy because of his offensive role but just don’t get spacey. Then in spurts give it a super effort.

He does put a lot of energy into offense, but with the amount of ballhandlers/scoring on this team, I don't think he can use that as an excuse. I think it's valid strategy to allow your main offensive threat to rest on defense, but if you're doing that, don't build the rest of the team with all offense no defense players. Don is the only one capable of doing a lot more on defense do he's got to do it. I wouldn't even mind if Quin told him to gamble 24/7 on defense. It would keep him engaged and help create turnovers, which is by far the weakest part of our defense.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

He does put a lot of energy into offense, but with the amount of ballhandlers/scoring on this team, I don't think he can use that as an excuse. I think it's valid strategy to allow your main offensive threat to rest on defense, but if you're doing that, don't build the rest of the team with all offense no defense players. Don is the only one capable of doing a lot more on defense do he's got to do it. I wouldn't even mind if Quin told him to gamble 24/7 on defense. It would keep him engaged and help create turnovers, which is by far the weakest part of our defense.

I think he still has to do the majority of the driving though because Mike isn’t really that guy. I’m not asking for a ton more energy but mental energy.

I’m not sure what the best solution is to the creating turnovers issue but Shaq for 10 minutes a night instead of Niang minutes would surely give us a boost there.

Im not sure DM is in full season shape yet and over the next couple weeks should find his stride. OKC and Minny both have athletic physical defenders and that might be a lot to deal with when you are still finding your legs.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

He does put a lot of energy into offense, but with the amount of ballhandlers/scoring on this team, I don't think he can use that as an excuse. I think it's valid strategy to allow your main offensive threat to rest on defense, but if you're doing that, don't build the rest of the team with all offense no defense players. Don is the only one capable of doing a lot more on defense do he's got to do it. I wouldn't even mind if Quin told him to gamble 24/7 on defense. It would keep him engaged and help create turnovers, which is by far the weakest part of our defense.

Making him a gambler could be a way to engage more there... if he has an assignment like Dort. Problem is the mix there... DM, Mike, Bojan all together make it tough to hide guys.

There are nights where he has a tough assignment and rises to the occasion so I think he’s capable... we’ve seen him be good for games or in spots.

 

[KqWIN]

Making him a gambler could be a way to engage more there... if he has an assignment like Dort. Problem is the mix there... DM, Mike, Bojan all together make it tough to hide guys.

There are nights where he has a tough assignment and rises to the occasion so I think he’s capable... we’ve seen him be good for games or in spots.

I definitely think he's capable. I don't think he needs to be a Beverly type disruptor, but creating a turnover or two a game will go a long way. The Jazz play a very conservative defense that limits opportunities for steals, but I still think he should be a guy who's in the top 10 in steals every year. I thought he actually brought a lot of energy in his rookie year but that has waned over the years.

There are a lot of offensive stars who do a lot more on defense than Mitchell. Even guys like Curry and Harden find a way to contribute by getting extra handsy on defense. I actually think Harden is a rock solid defender despite putting in minimal effort. He creates turnovers, is a plus rebounder, and isn't easy to score on when challenged 1v1. That makes up for the plays he takes off. Think Mitchell could do a lot of the same just staying alert and looking for opportunities to make defensive plays.

Our roster composition does put us in a tough spot though, like you said. IMO, the guy who has the easiest assignment is often the most important defender on the court. Giannis won DPOY by guarding the worst perimeter guy every night. But right now we're wasting that defensive potential by having Bogey, Conley, ect. on the court. Though Conley deserves props for the work he's putting into defense so far.

 

[oneye]

Through the first few games there's no denying Don hasn't been near good enough. He played amazing in the 4th quarter the other night, and his game winning plays on offense were great to watch. But yes his defense is not good, or at least not good enough for what hes capable of doing, and through the first 3 games he's shooting around 30% overall, which, if he's lighting it up on offense I can give plenty of slack on his defense, but he hasn't been good enough on the offensive end through the first 3 games either. Now, we all know how good Donovan is, and how good he will be but we're getting to a point in year 4 where, if he want to be on that top tier of stars he has to be great night in and night out without the inconsistencies. I get the "he shows up when it matters" thoughts but if he had showed up for 3 quarters of that game his heroics wouldn't have been needed in the 4th. I want to see him make another all star game, I want to see him make All NBA, I want to see him be a potential MVP candidate but narratives get written early and he needs to start playing better now. Conley has been far better than him through the first 3 games, as has Rudy. Donovan is going to have to be a super-star for the Jazz to compete. He can be, but he needs to be better and soon this season. 72 games leaves less room for slip-up games. The good news for Donovan, he hasn't taken much heat for his struggles so far nationally, Jamal Murray is also struggling and I've seen far more slander of him. All that was noticed is Donovan's brilliant 4th quarter and game winner. The benefits of playing in a small market. The good is broadcast, the bad isn't nearly as noticed.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I definitely think he's capable. I don't think he needs to be a Beverly type disruptor, but creating a turnover or two a game will go a long way. The Jazz play a very conservative defense that limits opportunities for steals, but I still think he should be a guy who's in the top 10 in steals every year. I thought he actually brought a lot of energy in his rookie year but that has waned over the years.

There are a lot of offensive stars who do a lot more on defense than Mitchell. Even guys like Curry and Harden find a way to contribute by getting extra handsy on defense. I actually think Harden is a rock solid defender despite putting in minimal effort. He creates turnovers, is a plus rebounder, and isn't easy to score on when challenged 1v1. That makes up for the plays he takes off. Think Mitchell could do a lot of the same just staying alert and looking for opportunities to make defensive plays.

Our roster composition does put us in a tough spot though, like you said. IMO, the guy who has the easiest assignment is often the most important defender on the court. Giannis won DPOY by guarding the worst perimeter guy every night. But right now we're wasting that defensive potential by having Bogey, Conley, ect. on the court. Though Conley deserves props for the work he's putting into defense so far.

There might be something here... Our defense is so regimented/conservative that having an agent of chaos might really throw things off for the other team. It also might **** us up... but that is what the regular season is for... experimenting. If we are letting guys go by us and making bad rotations anyway whats the difference? Maybe it helps DM engage a bit more on that end.

 

[LoPo]

Negativity? Well I guess negativity is only suffocating if it’s something you disagree with. Gobert negativity is A OK I guess.

The statistical improvements are very small. For example, the year two to year three per100 is 33.3/5.8/5.9/1.9 compared to 33.5/6.2/6.0/1.4. Really, not a huge difference there. His total shooting efficiency is up, but really...these aren’t significant improvements.

He has gotten distinctively better in some areas. His FT is better, his mid range is really good...but he’s also made changes for the worse. His percentage of shots at the rim are way down, his floaters are way up, and his defense has gotten worse.

What’s most important is that he hasn’t made progress in the areas where he can truly make a difference. His defense is poor when it could be really great. That’s just an effort thing, and when you have so many ball handlers and guys wanting more touches you don’t get the excuse of having to carry the whole load. There are several players on this team who are one way, all offensive guys. So it’s not like he has an extraordinary burden on him.

His playmaking also hasn’t taken much of a leap. It’s better, but not anything significant. It doesn’t matter if he’s the main “facilitator” or not. He’s had the ball a ton over the years. The reason why he’s not a great passer is because he’s not capable. It’s a skill that he hasn’t developed. Fact is, his decision making is poor and he is not great at making reads on the fly. Too often commits to a shot or pass before the play develops instead of reading the defense. So while I believe his defense is capped by effort, his playmaking is actually something that needs to be developed.

Then you have other things like getting to the FT line, transition, and moving off the ball. All of these things he’s pretty bad at for a lead guard. His FTr is improved off his rookie year, but not his second year thanks to his floater obsession, he’s consistently been one of the worst transition players in the league, and he’s basically a statue off the ball...but that’s more of the design of Quin’s offense.

All together he is improved, but not significantly over the years. In some areas he’s gotten worse. His scoring is very valuable. He’s great and has been great at converting difficult opportunities. But what really makes an offensive star is the ability to create easy baskets for himself and teammates. Mitchell isn’t great at either of those things right now.

My negativity on Rudy's contract is not the same as people calling Don trash. I dont call anything about Rudy trash despite his own clear limitations, ebbs and flows, etc. We don't have a complete, super star type player yet.

For a 4th year player, Don is freaking fantastic. People need to stay positive. He is in a new role this year and it's only the 3rd game.



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[KqWIN]

My negativity on Rudy's contract is not the same as people calling Don trash. I dont call anything about Rudy trash despite his own clear limitations, ebbs and flows, etc. We don't have a complete, super star type player yet.

For a 4th year player, Don is freaking fantastic. People need to stay positive. He is in a new role this year and it's only the 3rd game.



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It's only fair to point out Mitchell's limitations and improvement as a player, or lack thereof. Mitchell is not a trash player, but he has been playing like trash on both ends o far. Not every comment is ultimatum. You can acknowledge he's played poorly and be disappointed in his improvement while still believing he's a good player. If you can't acknowledge the negatives or comment anything bad, there is no point to commenting at all.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Lopo getting called out for his obvious BS. *chef's kiss*

 

[slc]

Donovan better snap out of this fast
Young guards like Trae Young and Ja Morant are off to great starts
although Ja is out for a few weeks now
Going to be tough to break into top six all NBA guards

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

It’s really early... all of us would do well to chill just a bit. I think there is a little extra urgency early with the long weird road trip coming. Gotta get 1 or both of the games coming up so we don’t get into a really deep hole. There have been a couple good trends and a couple potential issues but if DM is shooting straight or if Bojan was finishing the touch shots around the rim we’d be 3-0 regardless of our uneven defense.

 

[KqWIN]

It’s really early... all of us would do well to chill just a bit. I think there is a little extra urgency early with the long weird road trip coming. Gotta get 1 or both of the games coming up so we don’t get into a really deep hole. There have been a couple good trends and a couple potential issues but if DM is shooting straight or if Bojan was finishing the touch shots around the rim we’d be 3-0 regardless of our uneven defense.

I'm sure he will get back into form, but to be fair he has been really bad so far and a lot of his issues are unrelated to bad shot making. Not worried about it long term, but it would be nice to see him hit the ground running and/or see direct improvements to some of his problem areas.

 

[Jingled]

It's not just Donovan, our perimeter defense as a whole has been pretty bad. Shaq and Oni could help, but I also think guy's currently in the rotation are capable of defending better than they are at the moment.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I'm sure he will get back into form, but to be fair he has been really bad so far and a lot of his issues are unrelated to bad shot making. Not worried about it long term, but it would be nice to see him hit the ground running and/or see direct improvements to some of his problem areas.

I think a fair chunk is shooting issues. The other part is we want to see big improvements... so our expectations might be a little high. Then when he starts slow it makes it that much worse. If he is hitting that pullup three he's basically unstoppable. It also opens up a lot of the other stuff.

He's had some bad ball handling moments early in the season and some questionable decisions. I just think the stuff that is hurting Bojan and DM is stuff I expect to get straightened out. Super big picture championship stuff... the perimeter defense has to improve but that was always a long shot given our defensive talent on that end.

 

[oneye]

Donovan better snap out of this fast
Young guards like Trae Young and Ja Morant are off to great starts
although Ja is out for a few weeks now
Going to be tough to break into top six all NBA guards

This. Donovan has to start playing better because narratives are written early. I want him to make the All Star game and All NBA, and if the cold start continues he will struggle getting on them. He will break out of it and be fine for sure, and he’s a great player, but for the Jazz and he to be well positioned for success he has to turn it on from the start of the season, and the start of games.

 

[oneye]

It's not just Donovan, our perimeter defense as a whole has been pretty bad. Shaq and Oni could help, but I also think guy's currently in the rotation are capable of defending better than they are at the moment.

Yeah true, it’s really not good all around