Down On the Farm

[KqWIN]

Butler just dropped 30 and the game winner for the Stars. I don't necessarily mind him playing for the Stars, but he's not really going to get better by doing so. He needs to learn how to play with good teammates instead of scoring after dominating the ball. He's already very good at that and proved it in the RS...but he's only going to get better at playing with his teammates by playing with his teammates.

Forrest doesn't have much potential, give the minutes to Butler.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

I'm still intrigued by Malik Fitts. He had a nice line tonight with 10pts, 4rbs, 7asts, 2stls, 3blks. He fits the big, athletic-wing archetype we need.

 

[infection]

Butler just dropped 30 and the game winner for the Stars. I don't necessarily mind him playing for the Stars, but he's not really going to get better by doing so. He needs to learn how to play with good teammates instead of scoring after dominating the ball. He's already very good at that and proved it in the RS...but he's only going to get better at playing with his teammates by playing with his teammates.

Forrest doesn't have much potential, give the minutes to Butler.

My partial theory is that Quin’s intention was to run a 9-man rotation and didn’t see Butler as part of it (as much was said in the media day interviews). When he had a really good run in the preseason, he wanted to downplay it (not saying that’s a bad thing) and probably doesn’t like the feeling of having to feel like he’s indulging the lay public who are excited. But then right when the regular season started it was put out there specifically that they were going to find time for him. Then he had a stretch of 3-4 games playing poorly for 2-3 minutes. I think that was enough for Quin to cut loose and have some embarrassment in part because his initial assessment was “he’s a rookie, and I’ve got vets,” but then he played “fool’s gold preseason” and the hype came and Quin may be ashamed in himself thinking he sillily played into the hype and thus wants to go back to his initial assessment and doesn’t want to be perceived as the 14 year old playing 2k.

 

[KqWIN]

My partial theory is that Quin’s intention was to run a 9-man rotation and didn’t see Butler as part of it (as much was said in the media day interviews). When he had a really good run in the preseason, he wanted to downplay it (not saying that’s a bad thing) and probably doesn’t like the feeling of having to feel like he’s indulging the lay public who are excited. But then right when the regular season started it was put out there specifically that they were going to find time for him. Then he had a stretch of 3-4 games playing poorly for 2-3 minutes. I think that was enough for Quin to cut loose and have some embarrassment in part because his initial assessment was “he’s a rookie, and I’ve got vets,” but then he played “fool’s gold preseason” and the hype came and Quin may be ashamed in himself thinking he sillily played into the hype and thus wants to go back to his initial assessment and doesn’t want to be perceived as the 14 year old playing 2k.

I think it's pretty clear that there are even more extensive plans to rest Conley this year. Forrest is getting those minutes now even in a full rotation, so I think that role was planned even if it's not an every night type of thing. As for Butler losing his spot to Forrest, there's not really any mystery or overthinking that needs to be done there. Butler was abysmal. I want him to play as much as anyone else but there's no denying how he bad he was. Butler earned the spot with good play, lost it with bad play.

I don't agree with it, but there's no theory beyond a rookie getting the hook for bad play lol. I think Quin's concern about the public perception of him is literally zero when it comes to this decision.

 

[SoberasHotRod]

Great stat line for Butler, but did anyone actually see the game?

I think for most players it is super difficult to be efficient in limited minutes and touches. Most players need to feel the game for a bit before they can be comfortable. This is why low usage / high efficiency guys are really valuable, because it's hard to do.

I'm guessing Butler might not ever look good in limited minutes and touches, but unfortunately on the Jazz, I don't see him ever getting much more than that.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I love the whole "he needs to learn to play with others and he needs to learn how to play with other good players" narrative when combined with sending him to the G League where he gets 30 pts in 30 minutes. Its great that he performed well, but how is that helping him with what he needs to learn. He was on ball in like 80% of his scoring possessions. Maybe just give him 10-15 minutes to rest Joe/Mike and live with his mistakes so he can actually improve on the things you say he needs to improve on. IDK... just an idea.

 

[LogGrad98]

I love the whole "he needs to learn to play with others and he needs to learn how to play with other good players" narrative when combined with sending him to the G League where he gets 30 pts in 30 minutes. Its great that he performed well, but how is that helping him with what he needs to learn. He was on ball in like 80% of his scoring possessions. Maybe just give him 10-15 minutes to rest Joe/Mike and live with his mistakes so he can actually improve on the things you say he needs to improve on. IDK... just an idea.

For whatever reason Quin just won't do that. The kid gets in for a minute, makes one rough play, and gets yanked and then sent to the G league. I honestly don't understand Q's approach. Everything you said here makes perfect sense. But Quin doesn't see it that way. It's mind-boggling.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

For whatever reason Quin just won't do that. The kid gets in for a minute, makes one rough play, and gets yanked and then sent to the G league. I honestly don't understand Q's approach. Everything you said here makes perfect sense. But Quin doesn't see it that way. It's mind-boggling.

Its just wild to me that JC gets a leash like no other buy JB sits in the corner and if he misses a shot he's out of there. Give the kid a little freedom to create... he has enormous potential there. He gets space and has a pretty complete arsenal. He's also likely a better passer than JC as a rookie. 2-3 minute stints are enough to get the legs loose and that is it.

 

[infection]

I love the whole "he needs to learn to play with others and he needs to learn how to play with other good players" narrative when combined with sending him to the G League where he gets 30 pts in 30 minutes. Its great that he performed well, but how is that helping him with what he needs to learn. He was on ball in like 80% of his scoring possessions. Maybe just give him 10-15 minutes to rest Joe/Mike and live with his mistakes so he can actually improve on the things you say he needs to improve on. IDK... just an idea.

When I saw Locke’s tweet, I immediately thought of you and almost tagged you in it.



I think we’re missing an opportunity of seeing him as a spot up shooter.

 

[LogGrad98]

When I saw Locke’s tweet, I immediately thought of you and almost tagged you in it.



I think we’re missing an opportunity of seeing him as a spot up shooter.

We are missing lots of opportunities there.

 

[KqWIN]

When Conley is out, Butler should get the minutes every time. If you want to keep using Forest as the guy who buys 2-3 minutes for Conley in the middle of a game….I think Oni is better but sure.

We have a real talent that’s just wasting away and his bad habits might be getting reinforced in the G-League. If Butler was able to play this summer in OTA’s he might already be there.

 

[LogGrad98]

When Conley is out, Butler should get the minutes every time. If you want to keep using Forest as the guy who buys 2-3 minutes for Conley in the middle of a game….I think Oni is better but sure.

We have a real talent that’s just wasting away and his bad habits might be getting reinforced in the G-League. If Butler was able to play this summer in OTA’s he might already be there.

I wish Quin would see it this way. He never will. I am at a loss how Butler can even earn any more minutes when he is buried behind the end of bench guys and will be lucky to get 2 minutes at the tail end of a blow out.

I wish here early in the season when we are still getting our feet under us anyway Quin would do just this, simply start the kid or at least make him a primary off the bench when Conley is resting. Do it for 3 games and if it is an unmitigated disaster then adjust. No way the kid can ruin the entire game in an extra 5 minutes of game time.