El Paso Shooting

[Zombie]

I see no difference between a fence and a wall. Both are meant to keep people out. Today we hear how immoral that is.

So you are ok with a fence?

I'm OK with fencing yes. There are places where fencing is useful, near port of entries for example. The problem with the wall as Donald has proposed it is that it would be a continuous barrier covering the entire border. This raises ecological concerns, financial concerns, as well as concerns about private property rights along the border. It's also just a bad look to have an impenetrable wall separating us from the rest of the continent purely from a symbolic point of view.

 

[JazzyFresh]

I'm OK with fencing yes. There are places where fencing is useful, near port of entries for example. The problem with the wall as Donald has proposed it is that it would be a continuous barrier covering the entire border. This raises ecological concerns, financial concerns, as well as concerns about private property rights along the border. It's also just a bad look to have an impenetrable wall separating us from the rest of the continent purely from a symbolic point of view.

I personally don't care much about a barrier as stated but I do find the financial discussion pretty stupid. Billion upon billions are spent on enforcing border security alone. We waste money all over the place as well and I hear crickets.

I will say that I think a reason our borders are being flooded is because if Trump does get his way it will be a lot harder to cross or use the catch and release laws. These immigrants know this so they are getting here before it happens. If it does anyways. Right now neither party are doing anything to help and using this opportunity for political gain.

Once again. Where was anybody when Obama depotorted record amounts? Nobody called ICE terrorist then. Do people really think that when ICE raided and deported 385,000 people annually (more than Trumps 226,000) that kids weren't being put in jails? Jails and cages that separated kids from parents? It would be stupid and irresponsible to put kids with adults. People seem to think the Obama administration treated the illegals like saints and kept them in Holiday inn Express. No it was jails and cages. Yet no outrage or idiotic Nazi white supremacy yelling then by these hypocrites.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ax...ama-a72a0a44-540d-46bc-a671-cd65cf72f4b1.html

 

[Deleted member 365]

I’d like to see us focus on:

A. Resolving the DREAMERS situation. These guys were brought over as children. Deporting them now would be stupid (we’ve invested in their Edu) and immoral.

B. Greatly strengthening the investigations and punishments for those business owners who thumb their noses at our laws. Stop targeting Jose Sixpack; focus on Uncle Pennybags, who cares more about money than respecting our laws.

C. This is a long term project, but I’d like to see us support our southern neighbors more. As long as they’re living in countries with life expectancies half of ours, there’s going to be surges of refugees and immigrants (some of it illegal) coming here.

 

[LogGrad98]

The fence/wall argument is just so stupid. Fact is the VAST majority of illegal immigrants get here by airplane or a fully legal border crossing then just refuse to go back when their permission (visa or whatever) runs out. A bigger fence won't do jack-**** to impact illegal immigration. Give me a ****ing break.

 

[Zombie]

The fence/wall argument is just so stupid. Fact is the VAST majority of illegal immigrants get here by airplane or a fully legal border crossing then just refuse to go back when their permission (visa or whatever) runs out. A bigger fence won't do jack-**** to impact illegal immigration. Give me a ****ing break.

This is a good point and one I considered adding to my post.

Just from a practical standpoint, it's not a good solution for the problem of illegal immigration, especially when you consider the enormous cost to build and maintain such a structure.

 

[Red]

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/blame-abc-news-finds-17-cases-invoking-trump/story?id=58912889

President Donald Trump has repeatedly refused to accept any responsibility for inciting violence in American communities, dismissing critics who have pointed to his rhetoric as a potential source of inspiration for some citizens acting on even long-held beliefs of bigotry and hate....

But a nationwide review conducted by ABC News has identified at least 36 criminal cases where Trump was invoked in direct connection with violent acts, threats of violence or allegations of assault.....

ABC News could not find a single criminal case filed in federal or state court where an act of violence or threat was made in the name of President Barack Obama or President George W. Bush.

The 36 cases identified by ABC News are remarkable in that a link to the president is captured in court documents and police statements, under the penalty of perjury or contempt.....

 

[One Brow]

I disagree with their flip flopping. As I pointed out they voted for a barrier at one point and now they use the barrier as some crazy anti-Trump narrative.

Where were these two when Obama was deporting record numbers?

Did Schumer/Pelosi ever support an edge-to-edge barrier, as Trump has proclaimed? I don't believe so. You can support extending parts of the border without supporting edge-to-edge.

 

[JazzyFresh]

Did Schumer/Pelosi ever support an edge-to-edge barrier, as Trump has proclaimed? I don't believe so. You can support extending parts of the border without supporting edge-to-edge.

Lol that's being pretty damn petty to me. A wall, fence, string line, whatever is meant to stop or deter people from coming in, plain and simple. They weren't voting to put up a fence as a welcoming fence. The concept of a wall is no different, stop illegals from entering the country.

Again, I want to make it clear I couldn't care less about a barrier. Pelosi/Schumer calls a wall immoral, I could say the same about a fence. In the end they were made for the same results.

 

[Gameface]

I'm not in favor of an expansive border barrier no matter who proposes it.

But what makes what Trump is doing different is the narrative he created to support the building of a wall.

He specifically said the people coming across the southern border were the "bad" ones. The rapists, the murderers, the drug dealers. He has repeatedly described the people coming as an "invasion." He has demonized and dehumanized the people coming from Mexico, Central and South America. That's what's wrong with his proposal more than anything else.

People want to play games about this person was for a barrier, now they're not. I could see supporting some barriers, while not wanting to support one based on the premise that it's being put up to keep the less than human brown people out of our great civilization.

 

[One Brow]

Again, I want to make it clear I couldn't care less about a barrier. Pelosi/Schumer calls a wall immoral, I could say the same about a fence. In the end they were made for the same results.

I'm not sure if you missed my point completely, or simply didn't care. It's reasonable to think that 1) our current border walls could be extended in some areas, and 2) we don't need an edge-to-edge fence.

As for immoral, Trump's reason for wanting the wall are immoral. Trump has made that clear.

 

[Deleted member 365]

Trump has now backed off promoting background checks. The senate is still on recess. In other words, the GOP and the NRA have once again successfully choked out the clock on gun reform! All of those... 30+ lives lost in El Paso and Dayton will have died without forcing any gun reform.

And we’ll repeat this whole cycle again here in another week or two. Definitely no longer than 3 weeks.

Thoughts and prayers!

 

[fishonjazz]

Trump has now backed off promoting background checks. The senate is still on recess. In other words, the GOP and the NRA have once again successfully choked out the clock on gun reform! All of those... 30+ lives lost in El Paso and Dayton will have died without forcing any gun reform.

And we’ll repeat this whole cycle again here in another week or two. Definitely no longer than 3 weeks.

Thoughts and prayers!

Trump flip flopped?

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