Elections Have Consequences.


Handlogten's Heros

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But it is Nationalism though, is it not? They are trying to protect America as they see it (which in their eyes is the Confederacy). Because that's what America still is to it's core. It's still an incredibly racist nation held together by racist systems. A black man overtaking the senate in the favor of the Dems is what broke them.

I just hate pushing the idea that once Trump is gone "Trumpism" isnt going to be a thing. It's going to be a thing until we overthrow the system of racism that exist in America. Joe Biden isnt stopping Trumpism. America has to move towards true populism/socialism.
Yeah they found their leader and treated him like a rockstar... Our issues don't go away when he does. Its a start in the right direction though... maybe.
 


fishonjazz

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That doesnt really answer my question.

I see a bunch of racist/nationalist people who found a leader. Eliminating the leader doesnt really change it. So we can "defeat" Trumpism, but it's still going to exist. This has existed since 1776. America is and has always been racist. Is it really a coincidence that a black man winning Georgia was the straw that broke the camel's back?
They aren't simply racist though. This isn't all about race. Its about democracy and power and conspiracy theories and alternate facts and tyranny etc etc.
 

Saint Cy of JFC

Well-Known Member
Yeah they found their leader and treated him like a rockstar... Our issues don't go away when he does. Its a start in the right direction though... maybe.
The bottom line is that poor people are suffering and the middle class is shrinking. If this continues to happen you will continue to see people devolve into these easily manipulated mindsets where they are susceptible to things like Qanon. The pandemic has only expanded the wealth gap and made people more aware of it.
 

fishonjazz

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But it is Nationalism though, is it not? They are trying to protect America as they see it (which in their eyes is the Confederacy). Because that's what America still is to it's core. It's still an incredibly racist nation held together by racist systems. A black man overtaking the senate in the favor of the Dems is what broke them.

I just hate pushing the idea that once Trump is gone "Trumpism" isnt going to be a thing. It's going to be a thing until we overthrow the system of racism that exist in America. Joe Biden isnt stopping Trumpism. America has to move towards true populism/socialism.
I disagree that the senate race broke them. They were headed to washington to protest regardless of what happened in georgia. Trump losing is what broke them.
 

Saint Cy of JFC

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They aren't simply racist though. This isn't all about race. Its about democracy and power and conspiracy theories and alternate facts and tyranny etc etc.
I think it's largely about race. It's, in my view, the primary tenet of "Trumpism".

Example:


This is a politician adopting "Trumpism" as I see it. A clear appeal to racism to win over the racist white voter. A signal that says "Hey, even though I'm a rich multi-millionaire who committed insider trading based off covid intel that I later denied, I'm actually just like you because I dont like these brown people either"
 

JazzGal

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I think it's largely about race. It's, in my view, the primary tenet of "Trumpism".
I agree that racism is a large part of Trumpism, and perhaps the biggest reason that he has been able to convert so many to the cult. That seems to be true for the members of my family that are his supporters. Yet there are so many other issues that appealed to others as well. For some reason, people seem to want a more authoritative government, a dictator if you will, someone who they believe will fix everything for them. Some people hate Congress and think that it would be better if all decisions were made by one man who believes what they believe. For some reason, they think that would be freedom. Thankfully, they are not a majority, but it is still worrying.
 

idiot

Well-Known Member
But it is Nationalism though, is it not? They are trying to protect America as they see it (which in their eyes is the Confederacy). Because that's what America still is to it's core. It's still an incredibly racist nation held together by racist systems. A black man overtaking the senate in the favor of the Dems is what broke them.

I just hate pushing the idea that once Trump is gone "Trumpism" isnt going to be a thing. It's going to be a thing until we overthrow the system of racism that exist in America. Joe Biden isnt stopping Trumpism. America has to move towards true populism/socialism.
I agree with much of what you say, but I don't think that it's Warnock's victory that "broke them." I think this was likely to happen regardless of yesterday's vote. Their plans were made well before the vote took place. I don't think it would have just been a peaceful rally except for the Georgia outcome.

But you live in a different place than I do, so maybe you have insight that I don't.
 

str8line

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The bottom line is that poor people are suffering and the middle class is shrinking. If this continues to happen you will continue to see people devolve into these easily manipulated mindsets where they are susceptible to things like Qanon. The pandemic has only expanded the wealth gap and made people more aware of it.

Modern Republicanism has expanded the wealth gap as much as any other contributor. Remember trickle-down theory?
 

str8line

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Excellent interview with former Secretary of Defense and White House Chief of Staff Leon Panetta on NBC right now.
 

Engorged On Unborn Gore

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At the end of the day Trumpism and the Republican party share the same core value: Racism.

It's what gets republican's elected. So they will always be tied to Trumpism.
The Eurocentric majority is getting too narrow to guarantee political victory now. Which is why the distinction between Trumpism and general nationalism is important.

Trumpism is more of a cult of personality. The true target of the movement and its violence is liberal elitism, which has always looked down on working class whites.
 

The Thriller

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Trump succeeded in burning down the Republican party. It's been his goal all along to reform it into the Trump party. They'll never recover.
I wouldn’t go this far. This party is still very much alive. They’re a dozen seats away from controlling the house. One seat away from controlling the senate. a handful of swing states away from controlling the White House. and they still control the majority of state legislatures and Governor mansions. They’re still far better funded and organized than Democrats. The richest in America fund Republicans. They have countless think tanks like Heritage, CATO, Turning Point, and ALEC. They have the Federalist society that promotes ideologues to fill the court system. They have an unholy alliance with most Christian religions in America. That means that despite shrinking white evangelicals they’re gaining ground with Catholic Hispanics. Finally, they have the most comprehensive propaganda network in the history of mankind. From professional looking Fox News, to omnipresent am radio, to the best organizer for disinformation and protest, Facebook.

The Republican Party is still very much alive even in its current Trump state. Just watch, they’ll go back to obstructing everything starting Jan 20 and will most likely retake the Congress at the 2022 midterms, making Biden a lame duck president. this is why the next two years are key to repairing our democracy. Democrats should focus on voting rights and keeping their wide diverse base engaged at the local level and voting. We know Republicans are going to be come 2022. We need repeated Republican defeats and to send them into the wildness for a generation to bring balance to our country. Only once the poison that the Kochs and Fox News provide doesnt sell in winning state legislatures and congress will we finally see real reform in right wing media and the Republican Party.
 

The Thriller

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I can’t do that question justice, but, among other things it is an attitude of extreme antipathy towards all authority(i.e., elites) in science, medicine, and politics. It is the promotion of conspiracism as the default mode of thinking. (The talking points in his phone call to Georgia were born of QAnon, 4chan, etc.) It is extreme grievance politics, where Trump is a victim, and since his followers believe, they too are the victims. It is adhering to the position that nothing Trump says must ever be questioned. In the latter case, it is much like a cult. It is the position that Trump=the state, and that anybody who disagrees with Trump is an enemy of America.
Excellent psot
 

The Thriller

Well-Known Member
The Eurocentric majority is getting too narrow to guarantee political victory now. Which is why the distinction between Trumpism and general nationalism is important.

Trumpism is more of a cult of personality. The true target of the movement and its violence is liberal elitism, which has always looked down on working class whites.
Republicans are competing well with Hispanic catholic voters. So even though they’re seeing diminished return on white evangelicals, they’re seeing increased in Hispanic Catholics who identify as “white.” if it weren’t for African Americans, Democrats would be in trouble.
 

The Thriller

Well-Known Member
The bottom line is that poor people are suffering and the middle class is shrinking. If this continues to happen you will continue to see people devolve into these easily manipulated mindsets where they are susceptible to things like Qanon. The pandemic has only expanded the wealth gap and made people more aware of it.
It has been proven many times now that the driving force behind Trumpism isn’t “economic anxiety”, but racism. Sorry, but those with hordes of guns and body armor buying tickets to DC in January to LARP Rambo aren’t hurting for cash.
 

Engorged On Unborn Gore

Well-Known Member
Republicans are competing well with Hispanic catholic voters. So even though they’re seeing diminished return on white evangelicals, they’re seeing increased in Hispanic Catholics who identify as “white.” if it weren’t for African Americans, Democrats would be in trouble.
Currently, I think you are correct. But the Latino desire for (and performance of) “whiteness” may not age as well as conservatives hope it does.

Ourhistory of mixed races is rich enough to draw many of us back towards authentic ways of understanding our identity. Far more so, at least, than the fleeting machismo and cancerous arrogance of the Antebellum American mindset.
 

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