Energy Independence a Reality?

[franklin]

Vernal gets #5 on this "boomtown" list:

https://money.cnn.com/gallery/pf/2013/03/19/oil-boomtowns/index.html

They are going to have build a Dino theme park soon. Which begs the question, how much of a role does everybody think Utah ultimately would play in all this were we wisely to do what that original article projects?

That "big" U.S. Oil Sands project several months back that went before a judge was something like a mere 9,000bbl/day. Thought North Dakota might reach 400,000bbl/day in several more years. They're already at 800,000 or something. It would be amazing if they could get Utah up another 1,000,000bbl/day, and that could be sustainable for a few hundred years from what I hear.

On a side note, I hope Gov. Herbert doesn't give away our state resources to these companies without getting some good royalties for our school system. We could use it, especially down the road when Kennecott shuts down.

 

[One Brow]

How do we subsidize oil? The only thing I've found is paying them to extract old mine shaft methane gas because it's considered an air pollutant and we figure they can do it the cheapest. The only "subsidy" is making the product of their environmental cleanup profitable.

We don't give tax credits for for oil exploration any more? Or, are you being technical about a tax credit not being a subsidy?

 

[franklin]

We don't give tax credits for for oil exploration any more? Or, are you being technical about a tax credit not being a subsidy?

I don't know. I'm asking you. Also, is this a credit or is it an expense deduction the same as every other business in America expenses costs?

 

[babe]

A couple of interesting articles...

https://www.extremetech.com/extreme...a-nuclear-reactor-in-every-home-car-and-plane

https://www.extremetech.com/extreme...-or-how-small-science-will-defeat-big-science

David vs. Goliath

Pretty good links.

Cold Fusion is a reality, has been demonstrated or at least observed in many metals that pack hydrogen in the metal lattice, which is most metals. With the proximity of the "reactants" becoming essentially inter-atomic in scale when the only electron from hydrogen's "electron cloud" is , at low energy cost, a free proton, or in the case of deuterium, a free proton/neutron pair. Little is actually known about the nucleii of various metals in regard to "nuclear bonding", but it's clear that the huge energy barrier against bringing two nucleii together does have some holes in it in regard to approaching protons, neutrons, neutron/proton pairs.


(sent from my ranch, where the cows are scared of my lab)

 

[Beantown]

I don't know. I'm asking you. Also, is this a credit or is it an expense deduction the same as every other business in America expenses costs?

https://priceofoil.org/fossil-fuel-subsidies/

 

[Beantown]

In 2011 Oil subsidies were at 523 Billion, while renewable energy subsidies were at 88 Billion.

 

[babe]

I don't know. I'm asking you. Also, is this a credit or is it an expense deduction the same as every other business in America expenses costs?

I suppose in the case of OB this is a legit question, since it's the kind of question he asked you.

Businesses that don't write off research costs are looney-bin madhouses.

but I'm pretty sure he knows and accepts legit R/D costs as business expenses, and is referring to several legislated tax-favored specific development goals our congress has deemed worthy of their encouragement.

like the one you might use when you spend money getting a high-efficiency furnace.

 

[larryselbows]

I think we're getting dragged into the bushes with minutiae... Feel free to continue to discuss subsidies, but the point is that we need fossil fuels, there aren't any other practical options out there that can fulfill the world's energy needs.

 

[franklin]

Another useless link from Beantown. I'd look into this but it's almost 100% guaranteed to be more b.s. hype from the left trying to stir up onerous regulations pushed down on one industry and none of the others. I have no interest in picking and choosing losers is such a silly manner. Not to mention a convoluted tax code that we couldn't afford to regulate and no one could figure anyway.

We don't subsidize oil production. It's hype.

 

[babe]

I think we're getting dragged into the bushes with minutiae... Feel free to continue to discuss subsidies, but the point is that we need fossil fuels, there aren't any other practical options out there that can fulfill the world's energy needs.

too true. however, even though the cold fusion developments are getting the press, major governments and our military and space research agencies are taking it seriously. Newspapers largely owned by folks who also hold significant interests in the oil patch just are not going to give it the press.

But cold fusion is going to be coming out of the bushes and into practical application nevertheless.

And even so, we will be using carbon fuels for centuries as well. but back into the scrub brush. . . ..within a hundred years the government will be giving you a tax credit FOR releasing carbon into our atmosphere because of panic reactions to an oncoming ice age.

 

[One Brow]

I don't know. I'm asking you. Also, is this a credit or is it an expense deduction the same as every other business in America expenses costs?

It's actual tax credits. I'm not sure if they are in addition to or instead of expense deductions. I heard on NPR they are one of the items in the President's new proposals.

 

[One Brow]

Another useless link from Beantown. I'd look into this but it's almost 100% guaranteed to be more b.s. hype from the left trying to stir up onerous regulations pushed down on one industry and none of the others. I have no interest in picking and choosing losers is such a silly manner. Not to mention a convoluted tax code that we couldn't afford to regulate and no one could figure anyway.

We don't subsidize oil production. It's hype.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_subsidies

The value of industry-specific subsidies in 2006 was estimated by the Texas State Comptroller to be just $3.06 billion - a fraction of the amount claimed by the Environmental Law Institute. The balance of federal subsides, which the comptroller valued at $7.4 billion, came from shared credits and deductions, and oil defense (spending on the SPR, energy infrastructure security, etc.).

I don't think the Texas State Comptroller is engaging in liberal hype, and that's $3 billion the oil industry doesn't need.

However, in the same article:

A 2010 study by Global Subsidies Initiative compared global relative subsidies of different energy sources. Results show that fossil fuels receive 0.8 US cents per kWh of energy they produce (although it should be noted that the estimate of fossil fuel subsidies applies only to consumer subsidies and only within non-OECD countries), nuclear energy receives 1.7 cents / kWh, renewable energy (excluding hydroelectricity) receives 5.0 cents / kWh and biofuels receive 5.1 cents / kWh in subsidies.

So, it is probably fair to say we subsidize oil and coal less than other types of energies.