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Enes Kanter still unsigned

Borat said:
Fascinating thread. Not one, but two teams felt Kanter was a max player. Young too, drafted 3d overall, averaging 20 and 10 already. We got late first rounder for him in a terrible trade for the franchise. Yet people are still trying to start threads that he no one wants him, because he stinks.

Well, two teams offered max. Time to shut up and admit how valuable he actually is, and how pathetically our FO failed to get enough for his value.
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So we were supposed to hold on to him and let him walk for nothing instead of getting something for him? Because no way in hell were the Jazz ever going to give him half of what he just got.
 
zbone said:
That's not the point.
Just ask yourself how many soon to be maxed players were traded for that little in the past?
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Ask yourself this. Would Utah have matched a max offer? My answer is no ****ing way in hell. Therefore Utah got a good trade. They essentially traded nothing for a 1st round pick and other stuff as well.
 
I think the "Jazz traded Kanter for nothing" crowd needs to stop and ponder something for a second: Trading for a player a couple months before they become an RFA, especially with the looming cap increase, means that you're also very likely committing yourself to spending up the *** for that player to keep him long-term. It wasn't just a trade for Kanter, it was a trade for the right to ridiculously overpay Kanter. Not appealing for the majority of teams. OKC jumped on it because they were desperate to prove to KD they were all in.
 
Long before the trade deadline, I trust with 100% confidence the Jazz knew Enes' approximate 2015 RFA signing value. So did his agent. Also, before the trade deadline, the Jazz had an idea of his trade value. The market sets the price. While it is true that deals get done at the deadline, there is not a huge change in the market value in December as there is in feb. So the market situation was well known.
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Also, the variety of opinions here on Jazzfanz is also symbolic of the value of Kanter. It is not a slam dunk that he will turn out to be valuable just because he was paid max money. There are a lot of examples of high paid players that didn't work out to be that valuable. Kanter is a highly skilled player with a high risk quotient of not providing the value of his contract. Additionally he was RFA. So his trade value is lower than his contract value.
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If the same scenario of a player with his skill/risk/attitude was a point guard, then i'm in a bigger decision pickle. But if I have favors and gobert as positional alternatives then the decision is quite easy: get as much as possible in a trade - little as it might seem - and move on.
 
KD's Framily said:
I think the "Jazz traded Kanter for nothing" crowd needs to stop and ponder something for a second: Trading for a player a couple months before they become an RFA, especially with the looming cap increase, means that you're also very likely committing yourself to spending up the *** for that player to keep him long-term. It wasn't just a trade for Kanter, it was a trade for the right to ridiculously overpay Kanter. Not appealing for the majority of teams. OKC jumped on it because they were desperate to prove to KD they were all in.
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Great point. Also, without Durant, OKC was not going to challenge for a title last season, but they did want to make the playoffs. So they weren't going to pay a ton for Enes. Kanter and his agent were smart; they knew a trade would have to happen after they went public. I'm sure they didn't care about the destination; they just didn't want Enes' value to drop by him being viewed as a 3rd big instead of a starter.

And for OKC, it was a no-brainer. Even had they decided NOT to pay Kanter a huge salary, they gave up very little for a legit chance at making the playoffs. Enes was able to fill in for injured players (I believe both Adams and Ibaka missed games). And they could either keep him by matching an offer, negotiate a new deal or have him come back for one more season for the QO.

Now whether or not one thinks OKC would be better spending the money elsewhere and continuing to develop and give time to Adams and McGary is a whole other argument.
 
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Stifle Tower said:
Great point. Also, without Durant, OKC was not going to challenge for a title last season, but they did want to make the playoffs. So they weren't going to pay a ton for Enes. Kanter and his agent were smart; they knew a trade would have to happen after they went public. I'm sure they didn't care about the destination; they just didn't want Enes' value to drop by him being viewed as a 3rd big instead of a starter.

And for OKC, it was a no-brainer. Even had they decided NOT to pay Kanter a huge salary, they gave up very little for a legit chance at making the playoffs. Enes was able to fill in for injured players (I believe both Adams and Ibaka missed games). And they could either keep him by matching an offer, negotiate a new deal or have him come back for one more season for the QO.
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Except they got the worst of all worlds. They missed the playoffs, they gave up assets, and they still ended up signing Kanter for the max. Had they waited, they could have sign and traded Kanter with the Jazz for far less assets or evened out the salary better by giving us a few cast offs like they are trying to get rid of now. I'll bet they would have got him cheaper to boot. I don't think Portland signs Kanter to the max if he was still with the Jazz, they knew OKC HAD to sign him. It was a brilliant troll move.
 
^^^
Perhaps. I wonder if Portland really wanted him. As you said, they knew OKC had to keep him. With Utah, we would have just let him go and Portland would have the $17M "best of his generation" wunderkind.
 
Stifle Tower said:
Hypothetical trades by fans....lol. I guess DL should be fired because we didn't get Paul George. There was never a rumor of any team wanting Kanter, unlike what happened with players like 'Melo. And yes, everyone KNEW Utah would not give or match a huge offer for Enes. He had lost his starting spot to Gobert. Tell me, how many max players come off the bench? DL had two choices: keep a selfish, disgruntled ******* on the team, and try for a sign and trade in the summer, or risk losing him for nothing if he received any kind of high offer. Even worse would be to have him return on the qualifying offer. We both agree Utah didn't get much, but his public demands ended any chance DL had. And if you go back and read the news reports; DL had been trying since December to trade him.

As for the Malone example, that's irrelevant. Kanter didn't want to stay as a backup and the Jazz didn't want a selfish me-first player at his asking price.
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Since when rumours is an indicator of interest? DWill got traded without any prior rumours. At least two teams were interested in giving Kanter max. Likely even more would consider matching max offer sheet for Kanter but didn't bother with producing ones for one reason or another. It means there was an interest in Kanter.

You keep arguing with the point I never made - I don't say we should have kept Kanter. I say we traded him for cheap which just been proven by him receiving a max contract which is unheard of given how little OKC gave up for him. The fact that the Jazz didn't see Kanter as part of the future had no affect on his market value.
 
zbone said:
The fact that the Jazz didn't see Kanter as part of the future had no affect on his market value.
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No, but TV deal did. If no TV deal he'd be 6-9m/yr IMFHO. He's cancer, we won on this deal. Only cigarette smokers pay for cancer. ;)

Honestly I feel like it's more of Kanter not seeing his future with the Jazz, than the other way around.
 
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