Nah, Favors is much better. It's playing behind Al and Sap, and being yelled at by Ty that's zapping his energy and enthusiasm.
Favors the odd man out
- Thread starter franklin
- Start date
Nah, Favors is much better. It's playing behind Al and Sap, and being yelled at by Ty that's zapping his energy and enthusiasm.
David Stern
Well-Known Member
Favors. He's got a much higher ceiling, and Faried actually plays with some dang good guards
gregbroncs
Well-Known Member
Stats from NBA.com
Stat-------Favors--------Jefferson
FG%----.483-------.489
PPG-----9.5------17.5
shots per game------7.35--------15.75
Free throws per game------3.51---------2.76
MPG-----22.8--------32.9
RPG-----6.9--------9.1
SPG------.8-------1
APG-------1--------2.1
BPG-------1.6------1.2
.
These stats make Jefferson look better offensively and Favors far better defensively. But break it down to account for minutes while keeping in mind that the offense is ran through Jefferson and rarely through Favors and they are not as favorable to Jefferson.
.
Per 36 minutes
.
Stat------Favors-----Jefferson
Points-----15-----19.2
FGA-----11.6-----17.2
Rebounds-----10.9-----10
Assists-----1.6-----3.3
Steals-----1.3-----1.1
Blocks-----2.5-----1.3
.
Other relevant stats.
points per FGA-----1.29-----1.11
Points per FGA counting Free throws as half an attempt-----1.04-----1.02 This is a stat I used because I don't know how to tell if it's a missed shot on a foul or an and one.
.
So while Jefferson scores more and assists more he does almost nothing except pass better on offense. He also Takes a crap load more shots to score more and has the ball in his hands a lot more often on offense than Favors does. Especially if Favors and Jefferson are on the floor together.
Stat-------Favors--------Jefferson
FG%----.483-------.489
PPG-----9.5------17.5
shots per game------7.35--------15.75
Free throws per game------3.51---------2.76
MPG-----22.8--------32.9
RPG-----6.9--------9.1
SPG------.8-------1
APG-------1--------2.1
BPG-------1.6------1.2
.
These stats make Jefferson look better offensively and Favors far better defensively. But break it down to account for minutes while keeping in mind that the offense is ran through Jefferson and rarely through Favors and they are not as favorable to Jefferson.
.
Per 36 minutes
.
Stat------Favors-----Jefferson
Points-----15-----19.2
FGA-----11.6-----17.2
Rebounds-----10.9-----10
Assists-----1.6-----3.3
Steals-----1.3-----1.1
Blocks-----2.5-----1.3
.
Other relevant stats.
points per FGA-----1.29-----1.11
Points per FGA counting Free throws as half an attempt-----1.04-----1.02 This is a stat I used because I don't know how to tell if it's a missed shot on a foul or an and one.
.
So while Jefferson scores more and assists more he does almost nothing except pass better on offense. He also Takes a crap load more shots to score more and has the ball in his hands a lot more often on offense than Favors does. Especially if Favors and Jefferson are on the floor together.
Two centers in the stretch four era though?
& I'm great with Favors-Kanter granted Kanter becomes a top-6ish big. My question is more focused on team building than anything -- I think Favors a) has value that can get a good return, and b) is very replacable in context of a. Total return.
jope
Well-Known Member
meh. Not seeing what you're seeing.
Defensively he is clearly a stud
--DEFENSE--
Best d-rating on the team (102)
he has as many defensive Win Shares as paul millsap in 500(!) less minutes played...
He has a VERY High BLK% (5.5%, good for [by far] the best on the team, and 5th in NBA [just behind Tim Duncan, Roy Hibbert, Ibaka, and Sanders])
He has the highest TotalREB% and REB Rate on the team. (17.7%, good for 13th in the NBA, and 11 rebs/36 min)
Has 2nd highest DefREB% on team (23.5%, good for 20th in NBA)
-------Offense------
He is fairly effective for how low his usage is (only 20.9%)
He shoots basically the same % as al (48.5% compared to 48.9%) yet attempts far more free throws (2.5 more per 36 mins played, 5.5 total in that span)
He has a good OffREB% (12.1%, 16th in NBA) which is crucial for creating more scoring opportunites.
Per36 he's at 15 pts on 11 shots, compared to Al's 19 pts on 17 shots.
----Cons-----
Fouls, (kind of a lot, Not enough to eject per 36 however)
Turnovers (will come down when his Offensive fouling comes down)
AST% (been looking a lot better 2nd half of season)
Look... I know, He totally not as good at shooting a lot like Al. He will never be a player like that. and that's GOOD for this team. We don't want someone to take 20 shots a game to inefficiently get 20 points. Obviously that isnt working out so well for us. It has been shown multiple times over multiple seasons that on the rare occasion that we get everyone ample shooting opportunities, we score big. Much bigger than depending on 1 guy to carry the scoring load.
Saying he is as offensively deficient as Al is defensively makes no sense. With average starter minutes, just by his Rebounding skills and FT drawing ability Derrick can Avg 12-15 pts in this league, TODAY. Not to mention at least 10 rebs and 2 swats a game. he has about 5-6 more years until he's even reached his prime.
IMO it would be a mistake to trade him now.
Defensively he is clearly a stud
--DEFENSE--
Best d-rating on the team (102)
he has as many defensive Win Shares as paul millsap in 500(!) less minutes played...
He has a VERY High BLK% (5.5%, good for [by far] the best on the team, and 5th in NBA [just behind Tim Duncan, Roy Hibbert, Ibaka, and Sanders])
He has the highest TotalREB% and REB Rate on the team. (17.7%, good for 13th in the NBA, and 11 rebs/36 min)
Has 2nd highest DefREB% on team (23.5%, good for 20th in NBA)
-------Offense------
He is fairly effective for how low his usage is (only 20.9%)
He shoots basically the same % as al (48.5% compared to 48.9%) yet attempts far more free throws (2.5 more per 36 mins played, 5.5 total in that span)
He has a good OffREB% (12.1%, 16th in NBA) which is crucial for creating more scoring opportunites.
Per36 he's at 15 pts on 11 shots, compared to Al's 19 pts on 17 shots.
----Cons-----
Fouls, (kind of a lot, Not enough to eject per 36 however)
Turnovers (will come down when his Offensive fouling comes down)
AST% (been looking a lot better 2nd half of season)
Look... I know, He totally not as good at shooting a lot like Al. He will never be a player like that. and that's GOOD for this team. We don't want someone to take 20 shots a game to inefficiently get 20 points. Obviously that isnt working out so well for us. It has been shown multiple times over multiple seasons that on the rare occasion that we get everyone ample shooting opportunities, we score big. Much bigger than depending on 1 guy to carry the scoring load.
Saying he is as offensively deficient as Al is defensively makes no sense. With average starter minutes, just by his Rebounding skills and FT drawing ability Derrick can Avg 12-15 pts in this league, TODAY. Not to mention at least 10 rebs and 2 swats a game. he has about 5-6 more years until he's even reached his prime.
IMO it would be a mistake to trade him now.
Sandy Braille
Banned
Wasn't franklin the dude who made the Kwame Kanter thread-- talking about how we should trade Kanter while he still has some trade value-- only to have Kanter whoop *** a couple weeks after its conception???
franklin is onto something. Keep up the threads, frank. +4.
franklin is onto something. Keep up the threads, frank. +4.
Weezur
Well-Known Member
I'm pretty down on Favors this year.
Favors was the big big piece in that Deron deal-
Recall that the fact that we got Kanter was lucky (We went from 6th pick to 3rd)
Favors needs to be better to justify that deal as it was constructed.
EDIT- Ehhh forgot about Deron not signing back with us anyways.
Favors was the big big piece in that Deron deal-
Recall that the fact that we got Kanter was lucky (We went from 6th pick to 3rd)
Favors needs to be better to justify that deal as it was constructed.
EDIT- Ehhh forgot about Deron not signing back with us anyways.
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Quick hitters:
-We still haven't seen what Favors can do when asked to be relied upon consistently. The times that he's had to stand in for a starter, he has done exceptionally well.
-Big athletes that have good simple instincts and won't blooper their teams out of games aren't common. When it comes to the only thing even close to a defensive keystone, replacing their net contribution is not easy. At all.
-He's still young. And he hasn't played that many minutes (go back to point one).
-He's not strictly a center and neither is Kanter. Worrying about the issue of playing two centers in the stretch four era would be valid if neither big could guard out on the floor and neither big could do anything outside of the paint. The Grizzlies seem to be doing okay despite having at least one of these problems (and have it badly). It also wasn't long ago that Gasol and Bynum were a nightmare matchup.
-Swinging off the idea that post-players are a dying breed: why would Favors supposed inability to guard the post (which is exceedingly overplayed by OP) such a big deal? Favors is most suited to guard whoever's most likely to drag a big out on the floor anyway, and Kanter (or Al, or Memo RIP) should be just find guarding one of the 5 guys left in the NBA that you can worry about.
-I don't think Favors' value league-wide is very high. And what does he get you anyway?
I wish he was showing more stuff, too. But let's not get ahead of ourselves. I cannot emphasize the first point enough.
-We still haven't seen what Favors can do when asked to be relied upon consistently. The times that he's had to stand in for a starter, he has done exceptionally well.
-Big athletes that have good simple instincts and won't blooper their teams out of games aren't common. When it comes to the only thing even close to a defensive keystone, replacing their net contribution is not easy. At all.
-He's still young. And he hasn't played that many minutes (go back to point one).
-He's not strictly a center and neither is Kanter. Worrying about the issue of playing two centers in the stretch four era would be valid if neither big could guard out on the floor and neither big could do anything outside of the paint. The Grizzlies seem to be doing okay despite having at least one of these problems (and have it badly). It also wasn't long ago that Gasol and Bynum were a nightmare matchup.
-Swinging off the idea that post-players are a dying breed: why would Favors supposed inability to guard the post (which is exceedingly overplayed by OP) such a big deal? Favors is most suited to guard whoever's most likely to drag a big out on the floor anyway, and Kanter (or Al, or Memo RIP) should be just find guarding one of the 5 guys left in the NBA that you can worry about.
-I don't think Favors' value league-wide is very high. And what does he get you anyway?
I wish he was showing more stuff, too. But let's not get ahead of ourselves. I cannot emphasize the first point enough.
b_line
Well-Known Member
Basically exhausted the argument in favor of favors. Haha. Thanks for doing us all a favor!
DutchJazzer
Banned
favors is light years ahead on pick and roll offense than al jefferson will ever be.
give me pick and roll(team) basketball over than dump it down to al(non team orientated) alsketball