Few notes from last game

[Handlogten's Heros]

Yet Rondo actually had long periods of time where he was one of the best defenders in the league and was an amazing passer. Is DD better now? Yeah, but prime Rondo >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DD.

Wasn't the argument I was making at all, Rondo is such a negative on offense imo it derails things for his teams I don't see that with DD or AB. Just didn't think it was a good comp. Also, prime rondo was a terrible shooter who didn't take threes... teams would give him 12 feet of space on every possesion and he wouldn't take the three.

I will look for it, but I just don't see those things that used to drive me crazy with AB. He doesn't pump fake the three every time like Booker does and he is going to the line at a great rate as well as shooting a high percentage. He's been hitting from midrange, but whatever... he's not perfect.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Wasn't the argument I was making at all, Rondo is such a negative on offense imo it derails things for his teams I don't see that with DD or AB. Just didn't think it was a good comp. Also, prime rondo was a terrible shooter who didn't take threes... teams would give him 12 feet of space on every possesion and he wouldn't take the three.

I will look for it, but I just don't see those things that used to drive me crazy with AB. He doesn't pump fake the three every time like Booker does and he is going to the line at a great rate as well as shooting a high percentage. He's been hitting from midrange, but whatever... he's not perfect.

Yeah, but Rondo his team was designed around him.

Pierce/Allen where both elite shooters, especially Allen.

Garnett was an elite mid-range shooting PF.

So his team was built around his weakness (though not on purpose). Rondo was not a net negative in the prime Boston days. He made his teammates better, something Burks has still yet to prove he is capable of doing on a consistent basis.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

The aggravating thing about this team is that only Hayward seems like a guy who makes anyone better around him on offense.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Yeah, but Rondo his team was designed around him.

Pierce/Allen where both elite shooters, especially Allen.

Garnett was an elite mid-range shooting PF.

So his team was built around his weakness (though not on purpose). Rondo was not a net negative in the prime Boston days. He made his teammates better, something Burks has still yet to prove he is capable of doing on a consistent basis.

I'm not sure what your point is but you are right.

Burks is unproven, but he's decent. He isn't the problem on offense at all. IMO the problem is neither big is providing much offense at all and clogging the middle for guys that are helping the offense. That can work as long as we are dominant defensively, which we have not been.

Long-term the issue is we need a floor spacing big and Rudy needs to be able to get points as a rim-runner on the PnR and on offensive boards. We don't always have to have a floor spacer on the floor, but last night we saw how effective it was for the opposition. We need more flexiblity on the front line.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I'm not sure what your point is but you are right.

Burks is unproven, but he's decent. He isn't the problem on offense at all. IMO the problem is neither big is providing much offense at all and clogging the middle for guys that are helping the offense. That can work as long as we are dominant defensively, which we have not been.

Long-term the issue is we need a floor spacing big and Rudy needs to be able to get points as a rim-runner on the PnR and on offensive boards. We don't always have to have a floor spacer on the floor, but last night we saw how effective it was for the opposition. We need more flexiblity on the front line.

Disagree.

Favors proved last year he can hit the midrange jump shot at a fairly good rate. He is still taking the shots. They just aren't falling. I can live with that because I dont think Favors midrange jumper has completely left him, he is just in a funk.

A player not taking a shot is troubling to me.

 

[MDAV28]

Here's one example from last night. Burks catches this pass from Hayward in transition and is clearly wide open for a 3-point shot. He had already made his decision to attack the basket since he could easily hit the paint hard and was going full speed.



The defense collapses, leaving Ingles wide open in the corner and Hood open at the break. Burks takes a tough contested layup, and Favors somehow grabs the board over Adams and puts it back in.

 

[♪alt13]

I'm not sure what your point is but you are right.

Burks is unproven, but he's decent. He isn't the problem on offense at all. IMO the problem is neither big is providing much offense at all and clogging the middle for guys that are helping the offense. That can work as long as we are dominant defensively, which we have not been.

Long-term the issue is we need a floor spacing big and Rudy needs to be able to get points as a rim-runner on the PnR and on offensive boards. We don't always have to have a floor spacer on the floor, but last night we saw how effective it was for the opposition. We need more flexiblity on the front line.

huh

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

View attachment 4451

Here's one example from last night. Burks catches this pass from Hayward in transition and is clearly wide open for a 3-point shot. He had already made his decision to attack the basket since he could easily hit the paint hard and was going full speed.

View attachment 4452

The defense collapses, leaving Ingles wide open in the corner and Hood open at the break. Burks takes a tough contested layup, and Favors somehow grabs the board over Adams and puts it back in.

Must spread some rep.

But people think he can be a PG. I dont mind him passing that up to drive since the defense was scrambled to an extent, but just kick it out. This is a classic bad Burks play that holds him back from being a Hayward level player.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

huh

About the team being built around Rondo's weaknesses.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Disagree.

Favors proved last year he can hit the midrange jump shot at a fairly good rate. He is still taking the shots. They just aren't falling. I can live with that because I dont think Favors midrange jumper has completely left him, he is just in a funk.

A player not taking a shot is troubling to me.

You have tunnel vision (kind of like Burks on that drive) on two of Burks misses last night he got so much attention that the bigs cleaned them up easilty. Last night Favs and Gobert were much more of the problem on offense than Alec was. Favs jumpers weren't even close night. We need a big that can shoot the three... doesn't have to replace Favs, but will offer some flexibility on nights were the offense gets stuck.

Burks isn't a hall of famer, but if he passes on a three pointer to go get a shot he shoots at a 50% clip and draws a ton of fouls then I am okay with it. Not every two guard needs to be Kyle Korver.

He needs to shoot the 3 more, but it isn't the major deficiency we have on offense.

 

[MDAV28]

Here's another one towards the end of the game. Before this play, Burks was calling for the ball from Burke but he gave it to Gobert who handed off to Hayward. Hayward drove, brought in Burks defensive assignment, Novak, and kicked it out. Burks is obviously very deep, but still open for the 3 point shot. The fact he is standing so deep can lead you to believe he has no intention of receiving that pass and taking the shot.



Burks then dribbles towards the middle and look how far Novak is playing off! I know it's Novak but it's crazy to play off a 35% career 3point shooter that far, unless he is a great attacker like Alec and of course you're taking your chance he doesn't take that shot. And he didn't, he attacks Novak and airballs the contested layup.

 

[NAOS]

You have tunnel vision (kind of like Burks on that drive) on two of Burks misses last night he got so much attention that the bigs cleaned them up easilty. Last night Favs and Gobert were much more of the problem on offense than Alec was. Favs jumpers weren't even close night. We need a big that can shoot the three... doesn't have to replace Favs, but will offer some flexibility on nights were the offense gets stuck.

Burks isn't a hall of famer, but if he passes on a three pointer to go get a shot he shoots at a 50% clip and draws a ton of fouls then I am okay with it. Not every two guard needs to be Kyle Korver.

He needs to shoot the 3 more, but it isn't the major deficiency we have on offense.

all over Cy's chin

 

[MDAV28]

You have tunnel vision (kind of like Burks on that drive) on two of Burks misses last night he got so much attention that the bigs cleaned them up easilty. Last night Favs and Gobert were much more of the problem on offense than Alec was. Favs jumpers weren't even close night. We need a big that can shoot the three... doesn't have to replace Favs, but will offer some flexibility on nights were the offense gets stuck.

Burks isn't a hall of famer, but if he passes on a three pointer to go get a shot he shoots at a 50% clip and draws a ton of fouls then I am okay with it. Not every two guard needs to be Kyle Korver.

He needs to shoot the 3 more, but it isn't the major deficiency we have on offense.

You're right it isn't a major deficiency of offense. To me it's more about opening up Burks game so he can basically be better which is turn makes the Jazz better. Might be the homer in me but Burks is a special breed of attacking and finishing guard. There's not many like him who can get into the paint at will and finish in ways you couldn't even think about. Shooting the 3 at a respectable clip will open up so much for him.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

You have tunnel vision (kind of like Burks on that drive) on two of Burks misses last night he got so much attention that the bigs cleaned them up easilty. Last night Favs and Gobert were much more of the problem on offense than Alec was. Favs jumpers weren't even close night. We need a big that can shoot the three... doesn't have to replace Favs, but will offer some flexibility on nights were the offense gets stuck.

Burks isn't a hall of famer, but if he passes on a three pointer to go get a shot he shoots at a 50% clip and draws a ton of fouls then I am okay with it. Not every two guard needs to be Kyle Korver.

He needs to shoot the 3 more, but it isn't the major deficiency we have on offense.

How many times do we have to say this? Burks doesnt have to take every 3 pointer available, but he has to take some to keep the defense honest. If he keeps passing up 3's at this rate, it's going to be overall bad for the offense. It is the major the deficiency on offense. It much more worrisome than Favors, a guy who proved he can be a solid midrange shooter, missing a few shots in the preseason.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

all over Cy's chin

Please tell us more about how Burks can be like Jeff Teague and Russell Westbrook.

 

[NAOS]

Please tell us more about how Burks can be like Jeff Teague and Russell Westbrook.

please try harder to distort the point that you know I've already made.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

How many times do we have to say this? Burks doesnt have to take every 3 pointer available, but he has to take some to keep the defense honest. If he keeps passing up 3's at this rate, it's going to be overall bad for the offense. It is the major the deficiency on offense. It much more worrisome than Favors, a guy who proved he can be a solid midrange shooter, missing a few shots in the preseason.

Didn't Burks prove he could shoot around 2 or 3 a game last year at 38%? I think this is where he will be this season with better finishing and better passing. He's passed up a few shots in preseason. He's still shaking off some rust.

Favs is shooting 38% in preseason and about 50% from the free throw line... a little more troubling and could be a much bigger problem long-term.

 

[fishonjazz]

Didn't Burks prove he could shoot around 2 or 3 a game last year at 38%? I think this is where he will be this season with better finishing and better passing. He's passed up a few shots in preseason. He's still shaking off some rust.

Favs is shooting 38% in preseason and about 50% from the free throw line... a little more troubling and could be a much bigger problem long-term.

This. cy says that burks needs to take SOME threes to keep the defense honest. Last year he took 2.5 per game. That is some. Burks will not be the problem with the jazz offense.