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Fire up the Trade Machine

Elizah Huge said:
There is some potential there for a deal with Portland. I thought about a trade where we get Hart while sending Olynyk to a third team and that team sending assets to Portland. Miami comes to mind. This would be after trading Beasley to another team. Just thinking out loud here.
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FWIW Dame has said publicly that Vando is one of the dudes that he'd want to play with.
 
checkbookdoc said:
Trade I most want: Jared Vanderbilt + '23 HOU/BKN/PHI FRP for Killian Hayes

Killian is a young and improving guard under team control. Offensively, I love that he is a pass-first floor general because the players we have are really good finishers and being set-up takes the offense to another level (just look what Conley being on the floor does). I think being around Conley would be good for him. Defensively, Killian would set us up to be a really good defense with Walker in the middle, Lauri as help defender, Ochai and Killian on the perimeter.

The problem is that Killian has been a bad scorer. But, he is shooting 33% from 3 this year, has evened out his drives to the left/right, and improved his mid-range game. I think he will have siginificant improvement over the next few years (drawing fouls, finishing at the rim, and even his 3 ball), but even if he can just maintain his play over the last 25 games he could be awesome. I also think he would get a boost from being surrounded by better players. Kind of like Draymond Green is not valuable on bad teams, but really impactful when the other players are good. If you take his current playmaking/defense and add offensive skills he would be a borderline allstar player.

Pistons hopefully would be open to it because Hayes is redundant with their young core (Already have Ivy and Cunningham) and unless they win the lottery are going to draft another ball dominant player. So Vanderbilt would help balance the roster a little better. I would be willing to overpay for him because there are not a lot of floor generals with size and defense. All you really need is for him to get 10% better as a scorer to have a really good player that makes our roster fit.
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Vando and a 1st for Hayes? Hayes is god awful, lol.
 
YoungJefe said:
Vando and a 1st for Hayes? Hayes is god awful, lol.
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No he don't. He was bad until this year but improve a lot this season. Points, passing, he show he can be a good player. And his defense is better than our current PG defense. But i agree with you on the fact that Vando + 1 st is too much.
 
FrenchJazzFa said:
No he don't. He was bad until this year but improve a lot this season. Points, passing, he show he can be a good player. And his defense is better than our current PG defense. But i agree with you on the fact that Vando + 1 st is too much.
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Hayes is extremely inefficient as a scorer/shooter. He's a decent playmaker but only because he has the ball in his hands a lot after Cade's injury.
 
You're right. I look 2 or 3 games where he was decent butjust look at his stat and they are not good at all ( specially at 3)
 
YoungJefe said:
Vando and a 1st for Hayes? Hayes is god awful, lol.
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I am not guaranteeing that Hayes is an above average starting PG in two years, but IMO it is more than likely to happen. Saying his is awful is not true. He is a really good passer. He wants to just run an offense and would rather pass than shoot. He is a really good defender. His shot is improving. He has always been a good ft shooter and I think he will continue develop (he is 21). Also, remember that he is a pass-first point guard on the Pistons. His greatest contributions are wasted because he doesn't have players to compliment him. How hard is it for anyone to be a plus offensive player with that team, especially one who is trying to set up teammates?

That Brooklyn first is probably mid-20s, so probably not anything important. Vando is fine, but I don't think he is a long-term pillar so I would move him for a player has a chance to be a foundational player and who would be a great fit with the players you are focused on going forward (Lauri, Walker, Ochai, Sexton). Time will tell.

Here is a good article on Killian's shooting. Not good, but moving in the right direction and there is some hope for the long-term. https://www.detroitbadboys.com/2023...e-evaluating-every-killian-hayes-3-point-shot
 
checkbookdoc said:
I am not guaranteeing that Hayes is an above average starting PG in two years, but IMO it is more than likely to happen. Saying his is awful is not true. He is a really good passer. He wants to just run an offense and would rather pass than shoot. He is a really good defender. His shot is improving. He has always been a good ft shooter and I think he will continue develop (he is 21). Also, remember that he is a pass-first point guard on the Pistons. His greatest contributions are wasted because he doesn't have players to compliment him. How hard is it for anyone to be a plus offensive player with that team, especially one who is trying to set up teammates?

That Brooklyn first is probably mid-20s, so probably not anything important. Vando is fine, but I don't think he is a long-term pillar so I would move him for a player has a chance to be a foundational player and who would be a great fit with the players you are focused on going forward (Lauri, Walker, Ochai, Sexton). Time will tell.

Here is a good article on Killian's shooting. Not good, but moving in the right direction and there is some hope for the long-term. https://www.detroitbadboys.com/2023...e-evaluating-every-killian-hayes-3-point-shot
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He's just so inefficient as a scorer/shooter and hasn't really improved in those areas since he came into the league.
 
Anybody else interested in a Fournier/Reddish and two seconds for Beasley/Gay? A recent article indicated that the Knicks are willing to put up the seconds to get something for Reddish who is UFA this season. They don’t want Gay, throw Fontechio or possibly NAW into the deal. Looks like an opportunity to me - these guys value will never be this low again. Fournier is the same player he was a few years ago in Orlando, that we drooled over in trade scenarios. Cam Reddish is 23 and three years removed from being picked #10 overall.
 
Release the Kraken said:
Anybody else interested in a Fournier/Reddish and two seconds for Beasley/Gay? A recent article indicated that the Knicks are willing to put up the seconds to get something for Reddish who is UFA this season. They don’t want Gay, throw Fontechio or possibly NAW into the deal. Looks like an opportunity to me - these guys value will never be this low again. Fournier is the same player he was a few years ago in Orlando, that we drooled over in trade scenarios. Cam Reddish is 23 and three years removed from being picked #10 overall.
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No thanks. If we trade Beasley and take Fournier back we better be getting a pretty nice first not two seconds.
 
YoungJefe said:
He's just so inefficient as a scorer/shooter and hasn't really improved in those areas since he came into the league.
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Hayes has a .456 career TS%. He's terrible. Unplayable on a good team.

When you're that bad a scorer, its not enough to improve a bit. You almost have to become a different player. I don't think Hayes has it in him.

Besides, even "pass-first" point guards have to be able to put the ball in the basket these days. The game has changed, and the 1 has become a scoring position. You can still be a floor general, but if teams ignore you on the 3pt line, it almost doesn't matter how good you are as a passer.
 
Release the Kraken said:
Anybody else interested in a Fournier/Reddish and two seconds for Beasley/Gay? A recent article indicated that the Knicks are willing to put up the seconds to get something for Reddish who is UFA this season. They don’t want Gay, throw Fontechio or possibly NAW into the deal. Looks like an opportunity to me - these guys value will never be this low again. Fournier is the same player he was a few years ago in Orlando, that we drooled over in trade scenarios. Cam Reddish is 23 and three years removed from being picked #10 overall.
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Woof.

That's the rare case of turning lemonade into lemons.
 
Tremendous Upside said:
Hayes has a .456 career TS%. He's terrible. Unplayable on a good team.

When you're that bad a scorer, its not enough to improve a bit. You almost have to become a different player. I don't think Hayes has it in him.

Besides, even "pass-first" point guards have to be able to put the ball in the basket these days. The game has changed, and the 1 has become a scoring position. You can still be a floor general, but if teams ignore you on the 3pt line, it almost doesn't matter how good you are as a passer.
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Yeah giving up a 1st for him would be insane.
 
Release the Kraken said:
Anybody else interested in a Fournier/Reddish and two seconds for Beasley/Gay? A recent article indicated that the Knicks are willing to put up the seconds to get something for Reddish who is UFA this season. They don’t want Gay, throw Fontechio or possibly NAW into the deal. Looks like an opportunity to me - these guys value will never be this low again. Fournier is the same player he was a few years ago in Orlando, that we drooled over in trade scenarios. Cam Reddish is 23 and three years removed from being picked #10 overall.
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I'd remove Gay and make them add the 2023 Dallas pick. Add in Bolmaro or Udoka (maybe could have value for Udoka given the Robinson injury) to make the trade even from a # of players exchanged standpoint.

And Fournier is not the same guy. I'm not sure what accelerated his aging so much, but it has happened.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
I'd remove Gay and make them add the 2023 Dallas pick. Add in Bolmaro or Udoka (maybe could have value for Udoka given the Robinson injury) to make the trade even from a # of players exchanged standpoint.

And Fournier is not the same guy. I'm not sure what accelerated his aging so much, but it has happened.
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Well physically I don’t see that he’s lost anything, but to each his own. I think also that playing for Thibs may be a factor. These guys have barely even played this season.
 
My trade thoughts for the deadline

Conley to Clippers
Kennard and covington to the Jazz
Maybe it's jackson, covington and a 1st in 23. I'd prefer Kennard as a shooter next to Clarkson, but maybe the Jazz don't want to block Agbaji and prefer to open up more playing time for him. If it's jackson secure a buyout and bring back butler as the 15th man. CovingClippers, get more playing time with the Jazz than the clippers, perhaps making him a better trade asset next year on an expiring deal.

Olynyk and Gay to the heat
Robinson and Jovic to the Jazz
For taking on Robinsons contract heat take Gay, and the jazz pime reason is to get jovic if the heat won't go for it, then 1st round pick in place of jovic. I think potentially Robinson could fit better with the Jazz and hopefully find his shooting stroke from a few years back.

Beasley and Vanderbilt to Atlanta
Collins to the Jazz
Ultimately I think we get the right to swap picks in multiple drafts both teams betting on themselves. Jazz take collins with the idea they might be able to rebuild his value and get him to play like he did a couple years ago. I like the idea of Lauri and colli s playing together gives roster versatility as they could easily swap all over the floor.

Jazz continue to gain assets while adding pieces that might fit longterm if not more trades in the future.
 
I want to see Agbaji get more playing time, but more so he can develop defensively than for his offense, which is already decent. I loved that we closed with him. I think that was maybe our best closing lineup so far this season.
 
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