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Florida Airport Shooting - 5 Dead 13 hurt

bigb said:
After an extremely LONG day I can finally answer this.
As has been pointed out in this thread, Chicago having such strict gun laws has created a city of victims.
You cited something you claimed was a small study (admittedly, I didn't read it as I haven't had the time). Great. I'm not saying I will never think stricter gun laws are the answer. In fact, I've been on record as stating something needs to be done.
What I am saying is that the sad truth is people wanting to do bad things with guns will always find a way to do it. Taking away my right and ability to defend myself is not the answer, IMO.

"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms..disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed one." - Thomas Jefferson quoting Cesare Beccaria, Criminologist in 1764.

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin



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Thanks for your reply, but honestly I don't know how to respond to quotes from Thomas Jefferson and Bejamin Franklin. It's like whatever I say against those 'words of truths' are going to be judged against, right?


Anyway I don't claim to have the answer but in the quotes above are mentioned 'assailants' and 'assaulted'. Yes OK maybe in the 18th Century you need guns to protect yourself because nobody's gonna be able to help you if you live in a farm 30-40 minutes horse ride away from the Sheriff.


But don't you think we need to update this line of thinking for the 21st Century where police can respond and get to your house within minutes? Where we are now living in densely populated area and we can set up nighbourhood watch to help? We also have alarm systems, security systems, cameras now too at our disposal. Seems to me there are lots that can be looked at before handing a gun to everyone who wants one. (one could argue that giving 'assailants' easy access isn't the answer neither?)


Again I never claim to have 'the answer', but I just don't think shutting down an argument with 'Second Amendment rights' and 'well it's always been that way' is the solution.
 
ONE LOVE said:
Thanks for your reply, but honestly I don't know how to respond to quotes from Thomas Jefferson and Bejamin Franklin. It's like whatever I say against those 'words of truths' are going to be judged against, right?


Anyway I don't claim to have the answer but in the quotes above are mentioned 'assailants' and 'assaulted'. Yes OK maybe in the 18th Century you need guns to protect yourself because nobody's gonna be able to help you if you live in a farm 30-40 minutes horse ride away from the Sheriff.


But don't you think we need to update this line of thinking for the 21st Century where police can respond and get to your house within minutes? Where we are now living in densely populated area and we can set up nighbourhood watch to help? We also have alarm systems, security systems, cameras now too at our disposal. Seems to me there are lots that can be looked at before handing a gun to everyone who wants one. (one could argue that giving 'assailants' easy access isn't the answer neither?)


Again I never claim to have 'the answer', but I just don't think shutting down an argument with 'Second Amendment rights' and 'well it's always been that way' is the solution.
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I can respect your line of thinking. But what I come back to is that bad people will always find a way to have guns. Always. In your scenario of cops being able to get to your house in minutes, if the criminal has a gun and wants to do harm, those cops are useless. You will be dead before they get there. A bullet travels way faster than a police car.


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bigb said:
I can respect your line of thinking. But what I come back to is that bad people will always find a way to have guns. Always. In your scenario of cops being able to get to your house in minutes, if the criminal has a gun and wants to do harm, those cops are useless. You will be dead before they get there. A bullet travels way faster than a police car.


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Yes I get that, but then that's like the chicken and egg situation isn't it?


You give easy access to guns to everyone. Who is going to benefit from that the most? Obviously the assailants because they're always on the look out to do harm to others. So obviously the 'take up rate' of guns amongst assailants is going to be high compared to the general public. Most everyday Americans don't own guns for example. I think gun ownership rate is 36%.


It's a tough one, but you need to start somewhere. If you want more evidence then all you need to do is take a look around the world, countries with strict gun control (Japan, Aus, etc), have a significantly less gun related homicides and suicides, it's as simple as that.
 
Gameface said:
Oh yeah, Computer? Well how many limbs does your invisible sky daddy have? I bet my invisible sky daddy could wrap your invisible sky daddy up and smother him in marinara sauce until he cried.

flying_spaghetti_monster_by_cpnhowdie.jpg
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Ive made it pretty clear on plenty of occasions what I think of all religions. So nice try at a burn. I could care less what crap you talk about Christianity or any other religion. I'm just calling it like it is. In the current day, Christianity is far more peaceful than Islam could ever dream of being. The proof is everywhere. Pictures, videos, writings, and reality. Peace one of main goals of the people on this planet. Id rather no religion exist, and the rest of the planet pull their heads out there asses. So we can get on with accomplishing more important things.

You are the dunce that is all mixed up. You have this stance against religion but at the same time defend the worst religion of all time for the sake of bowing down to your PC God. You cant on any level defend it logically.
 
The reason the murder rate in Chicago is high is nto because of gun or gun laws, it is because of broken families, men there got no idea of what it's like to be a man because they are getting raised by moms. so they turn to the street and each other to become a "man" but all they become is tribalisitic thugs
 
Computer said:
Here, let me answer that since Stoked is afraid to.

Because people are afraid to speak up. They don't want to die or have awful things happen to them. Islam is the religion of intimidation and violence.
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Don't imply that you know anything about what I think. Hack
 
JustTheTip said:
I have a hard time believing gun ownership rates are as low as 36%. Care to cite that OL?
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Sure:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/06/29/american-gun-ownership-is-now-at-a-30-year-low/?utm_term=.7aec16552343

The percent of American households owning guns is at a near-40 year low in the latest CBS News poll released this month.

According to the survey, which was conducted among 1,001 Americans in the aftermath of the Orlando nightclub shooting, 36 percent of U.S. adults either own a firearm personally, or live with someone who does. That's the lowest rate of gun ownership in the CBS poll going back to 1978. It's down 17 points from the highest recorded rate in 1994, and nearly 10 percentage points from 2012.

Different national polls tend to show slightly different rates of gun ownership. The latest household gun ownership rate in the General Social Survey, in 2014, was 32 percent. The October 2015 Gallup survey showed a higher rate of 43 percent, including guns kept on property outside the home.

But the downward trend in gun ownership remains consistent across the national polls.
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Here's another article that said that half of firearms belong to just 3% of adults:

https://fortune.com/2016/09/19/us-gun-ownership/

Gun "super-owners" are on the rise in America.

For only 242 million adults living in the U.S., there are about 265 million guns, according to a recent Harvard and Northeastern University study obtained by the Guardian. That comes out to be more than one gun for every adult.

Half of those guns belong to just 3% of the adult population. These super-owners have anywhere between eight and 140 guns each, with the group average being 17, according to the study.

Overall, there are an estimated 55 million gun owners in the U.S.: Most have an average of three guns; half own one or two guns; and the number of guns owned by Americans has gone up by 70 million over that same time period.

Meanwhile the number of Americans who own guns has decreased from 25% to 22% since 1994. And the study also found that there has been a dramatic increase in gun theft, nearly doubling from 230,000 per year to 400,000 per year.
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Thanks for the link. Without knowing where they took the poll, seems like it was pretty limited.

PEW had a poll where ownership was 44%, with 5% of responders declining to answer. Since there are people who own unregistered guns, you can't really use government data accurately. Seems like most polls are running between 35-45% with a certain amount of people declining to answer, which is indicative of them owning a gun. Based on that, I would guess true numbers are running around 40-50% of households.
 
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