Following Potential 2025 Draftees

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That’s interesting the more I think about it. I’d much rather take an upside swing on Ace or Tre but VJ is the more well-rounded prospect overall.

Do the Jazz think like this? Who knows. I hope we take an upside swing though.

@KqWIN has kind of ruffled some of my feathers with his Fears take. And the more I watch of him the more I think I agree. He looks like the most obvious upside swing to me. Purely skill-wise he's at an extremely high level. He has the handle, he has the creativity and flair, he has all the little hesitation. crafty misdirections and fakes. He just looks like he can get anywhere he wants on the floor with the ball. He has obvious playmaking chops. He goes to the rim and he doesn't shy away from contact there. Pretty much the only huge question with him is his shot. And even there we have a promising indicator(FT%) we can grab onto and justify picking him high. I wonder if we have his shooting stats from high school? Anybody?

 

[Elizah Huge]

@KqWIN has kind of ruffled some of my feathers with his Fears take. And the more I watch of him the more I think I agree. He looks like the most obvious upside swing to me. Purely skill-wise he's at an extremely high level. He has the handle, he has the creativity and flair, he has all the little hesitation. crafty misdirections and fakes. He just looks like he can get anywhere he wants on the floor with the ball. He has obvious playmaking chops. He goes to the rim and he doesn't shy away from contact there. Pretty much the only huge question with him is his shot. And even there we have a promising indicator(FT%) we can grab onto and justify picking him high. I wonder if we have his shooting stats from high school? Anybody?

Higher upside than Ace and Tre?

 

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Higher upside than Ace and Tre?

I'm not sure it's higher(probably not)... but it looks more straightforwardly achievable high upside.

 

[YoungJefe]

 

[HermanG]

@KqWIN has kind of ruffled some of my feathers with his Fears take. And the more I watch of him the more I think I agree. He looks like the most obvious upside swing to me. Purely skill-wise he's at an extremely high level. He has the handle, he has the creativity and flair, he has all the little hesitation. crafty misdirections and fakes. He just looks like he can get anywhere he wants on the floor with the ball. He has obvious playmaking chops. He goes to the rim and he doesn't shy away from contact there. Pretty much the only huge question with him is his shot. And even there we have a promising indicator(FT%) we can grab onto and justify picking him high. I wonder if we have his shooting stats from high school? Anybody?

Problem is he can shoot already. 85% FT on over 6 attempts and 36.4% on C&S 3s..

He just cant shoot from motion. His misses are also all over the place. From few lowlight/analysis videos Ive seen they were mostly right rim or back rim.

Thats damn concerning.

 

[Tremendous Upside]

I think Suggs is a good expectation for VJ. He’ll likely end up a similar player and probably around the same level. He is unlikely to be a star player, but to act like he has zero chance to make improvements and his stuck at his current skill level is kind of ridiculous.

IMO VJ has one of the highest ceilings – if not THE highest – in this draft. Nobody's a guaranteed star, but out of everyone in the top 20, I'll be the least surprised if Edgecombe is the face of some franchise in four years. Him or Harper.

He's just a fascinating case. VJ has all the surface level talent to be a self-promoting, mean-mugging egomaniac perfect for the social media age and highlight / soundbite culture, but the kid just plays hard and competes relentlessly. It's almost like people are having a tough time pinning him down – we're so used to having kids like him trying to speak their stardom into existence from an early age and acting like the world owes them something.

The fact that he doesn't force difficult shots, hog the ball or act like a superstar (with zero NBA games under his belt) is somehow seen as a weakness. Always passing to an open teammate without hesitation is taken as proof that he's not an "alpha dog". Moving without the ball is "role player stuff". That's where we're at, and it's ridiculous.

 

[idiot]

... the game is played in shoes ...

I've never really bought this rationalization of why we should respect the inflated shoes-on heights of basketball players (not saying you are either -- I like your post).

Do we measure baseball players' height with their batting helmet on? Do we measure boxers' weights with their gloves and shoes? Do we measure football players' weights with pads/helmets/shoes?

Why the difference for basketball players?

So I'm glad the combine has gone to shoes-off measurements, even if fans/teams don't go against the convention of preferring shoes-on measurements. (Wish they'd change from vertical leap to leaping reach, as well).

 

[SoberasHotRod]

I was a VJ homer then I watched a couple full games. He’s nothing what I thought. I’ve also seen 5 full Tre games. He’s not a great defender but a passable defender with the chops to be decent. He also provides rim pressure but doesn’t finish well at all.

You guys… he isn’t Key at all.

I've never called Tre Key, but if he could pass as well as Key that would be a big deal, Key is a very good passer.

Tre is on a different level as a shooter, it would be like Key if his shot went in all the time.

 

[SoberasHotRod]

For those that have watched a lot of Tre Johnson film, what are your thought on this:

Does Tre Johnson actively avoid contact or has he just not learned how to finish through contact?

 

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I've never really bought this rationalization of why we should respect the inflated shoes-on heights of basketball players (not saying you are either -- I like your post).

Do we measure baseball players' height with their batting helmet on? Do we measure boxers' weights with their gloves and shoes? Do we measure football players' weights with pads/helmets/shoes?

Why the difference for basketball players?

So I'm glad the combine has gone to shoes-off measurements, even if fans/teams don't go against the convention of preferring shoes-on measurements. (Wish they'd change from vertical leap to leaping reach, as well).

The reality is ... It doesn't matter what measurement we are using as long as we are using the same measurement and not mixing and matching whenever it suits our argument(don't like Ace - oh he turned out to be super short 6'7", you like VJ - oh he's definitely 6'6" or thereabout. Pretty much no difference between those two...

 

[KqWIN]

I've never called Tre Key, but if he could pass as well as Key that would be a big deal, Key is a very good passer.

Tre is on a different level as a shooter, it would be like Key if his shot went in all the time.

I’m not sure Key is actually a better passer, but he can touch the paint fairly well. Never got shot attempts in college or in the pros, but that’s because he’s a foul merchant and those drives either turn into free throw, floaters, or a kick out to teammates. Tre doesn’t really touch the paint much and I don’t think it’s really a matter of him deciding to do it. It’s a skill that he doesn’t have.

But please nobody mistake this for saying they are the same or Key is better. Tre is on another planet as a shooter.

 

[KqWIN]

For those that have watched a lot of Tre Johnson film, what are your thought on this:

Does Tre Johnson actively avoid contact or has he just not learned how to finish through contact?

I think it's both. When there's a defender between he in the basket his heavy preference is to pullup from mid range. But I also don't think he has the skill or explosion when he does attack the rim. I know what the combine numbers say, but he's not taking off from barely inside the FT line like VJ is. And he doesn't have the craft that Fears/Kas have in the same situation. Those guys are both more skilled in that situation and way more physical. So while he could choose to attack more, I don't think he's on the level of these other guys and I'd also put him behind theoretical Ace Bailey who decides to attack the hoop.